Jiterry Paddle Controllers (issue with the console itself?)

[Klemen]

Hey everyone,

 

I've recently gotten my hands on an Atari Heavy Sixer. So far the unit appears to function perfectly, however, I've noticed an issue with Paddle controllers and I suspect it might be an issue with the console itself, not the controllers. The paddles generally work, but when put in certain positions, for example when paddles are in the lower part of the screen in Video Olympics, the jitter becomes more apparent. When the paddle is positioned near the top of the screen, it stays completely still and there is absolutely no jitter. So basically, the lower the paddle is positioned, the worse the jitter becomes. This observation is consistent across all paddle games.

 

Now, having different degrees of jitter isn't too surprising (could just be due to dirt build-up in the controller), however:

1. I have cleaned the controllers thoroughly (even opened the pots and cleaned the potentiometer)

2. The exact same jitter is observed in the second paddle controller

3. The exact same jitter is also observed when I plug in different paddle controllers

4. The exact same jitter is also observed on all 4 paddles when 2 pairs of controllers are plugged in (for example in Warlords or Medieval Mayhem)

 

I would like to get this fixed, but when I tried looking up solutions, the answer always appears to be either that the controllers are broken or need to be cleaned. But in my case, I suspect it's an issue with the console. Ideas or advice on how to get this resolved would be much appreciated.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Klemen

[Voxel]

That kind of movement is common on a lot of paddles, I've only seen a few with solid movement.

 

I would check the connectors on the console are clean too.  You can try to bend the wiper arm so it presses more firmly on the resistive surface.

[Rogerpoco]

I made a VERY primitive video on taking the pots apart and cleaning them-it's helped several people, but you can also break the metal "teeth" inside, rendering it useless.

It's pretty tough to take a pot apart, but you can get good results a lot of the time.

 

Not sharing this "with pride", lol, I really don't have a clue what I am doing, but mebbe it can at least help you gain confidence to try to take them apart.

Good Luck!!!

 

 

[Tantan]

Spray inside of the Pots with WD-40 and move them back and forth as you spray.  this cleans them and will get you operational in a snap.  you can get WD-40 at any automotive or hardware store like home depot.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Tantan

[Rom Collector]

On 8/26/2020 at 8:22 PM, Klemen said:

Hey everyone,

 

I've recently gotten my hands on an Atari Heavy Sixer. So far the unit appears to function perfectly, however, I've noticed an issue with Paddle controllers and I suspect it might be an issue with the console itself, not the controllers. The paddles generally work, but when put in certain positions, for example when paddles are in the lower part of the screen in Video Olympics, the jitter becomes more apparent. When the paddle is positioned near the top of the screen, it stays completely still and there is absolutely no jitter. So basically, the lower the paddle is positioned, the worse the jitter becomes. This observation is consistent across all paddle games.

 

Now, having different degrees of jitter isn't too surprising (could just be due to dirt build-up in the controller), however:

1. I have cleaned the controllers thoroughly (even opened the pots and cleaned the potentiometer)

2. The exact same jitter is observed in the second paddle controller

3. The exact same jitter is also observed when I plug in different paddle controllers

4. The exact same jitter is also observed on all 4 paddles when 2 pairs of controllers are plugged in (for example in Warlords or Medieval Mayhem)

 

I would like to get this fixed, but when I tried looking up solutions, the answer always appears to be either that the controllers are broken or need to be cleaned. But in my case, I suspect it's an issue with the console. Ideas or advice on how to get this resolved would be much appreciated.

Not sure of your experience, but it would be considered normal to have a little noticeble jitter. As noted before, make sure the pins are clean. Resoldering the internal pin conecctions may improve things. However, again, I think U may B normal.

[Tantan]

Lets assume its not the Paddle first.  Then what could it be:

 

Paddles on Atari 2600 units work based on a RC timing circuit (resistor+capacitor in series).  The Paddle's pot is the resistor and there is a capacitor in the unit.  The system times how long it takes for capacitor to charge and this varies based on the POT position.  The larger the resistance (in your case the lower part of the screen) the longer it takes to charge.  This is how the system coverts analog position of the paddle to digital value in the unit.  As capacitors age they tend to become lower in precision and thus the time it takes to charge slightly varies and thus they become less accurate on the high end in RC timing circuits.  When the pot is closer to the bottom, you have less resistance so it the capacitor charges quickly, thus its more accurate in this area.  You can generally expect slightly higher jitter on top end in most RC circuits, but if it is dramatic, its likely poor precision capacitors on the unit.  Try some of the other ports and see if they are the same?  If all the ports are all the same, then its probably not a specific capacitor of a port and its either the lot of capacitors used in the unit built.

 

Only other thing i can think of is perhaps unlike most Atari units like the light sixer and 8 bit computers, maybe the Heavy Sixer model uses a voltage divider instead of RC circuit.  If it does, then this would explain it also.  Atari paddles use a 1MOhm pot.  Voltage divider circuit would put this in series with another 1M resistor, and divider circuits with POT and fixed resistor natually cause a curve (more accurate on one side vs the other).

 

Back to if its paddles:

Are they original Atari paddles?  out of ideas on this one

 

[Tantan]

14 minutes ago, Tantan said:

Lets assume its not the Paddle first.  Then what could it be:

 

Paddles on Atari 2600 units work based on a RC timing circuit (resistor+capacitor in series).  The Paddle's pot is the resistor and there is a capacitor in the unit.  The system times how long it takes for capacitor to charge and this varies based on the POT position.  The larger the resistance (in your case the lower part of the screen) the longer it takes to charge.  This is how the system coverts analog position of the paddle to digital value in the unit.  As capacitors age they tend to become lower in precision and thus the time it takes to charge slightly varies and thus they become less accurate on the high end in RC timing circuits.  When the pot is closer to the bottom, you have less resistance so it the capacitor charges quickly, thus its more accurate in this area.  You can generally expect slightly higher jitter on top end in most RC circuits, but if it is dramatic, its likely poor precision capacitors on the unit.  Try some of the other ports and see if they are the same?  If all the ports are all the same, then its probably not a specific capacitor of a port and its either the lot of capacitors used in the unit built.

 

Only other thing i can think of is perhaps unlike most Atari units like the light sixer and 8 bit computers, maybe the Heavy Sixer model uses a voltage divider instead of RC circuit.  If it does, then this would explain it also.  Atari paddles use a 1MOhm pot.  Voltage divider circuit would put this in series with another 1M resistor, and divider circuits with POT and fixed resistor natually cause a curve (more accurate on one side vs the other).

 

Back to if its paddles:

Are they original Atari paddles?  out of ideas on this one

 

BTW, you can trace pins 5 and 9 on the joystick ports to get to the capacitors in question.  if you happen to have the service manual with circuit diagram, share it and i can point you to the right capacitor you want to change.

[Torr]

6 hours ago, Tantan said:

Spray inside of the Pots with WD-40 and move them back and forth as you spray.  this cleans them and will get you operational in a snap.  you can get WD-40 at any automotive or hardware store like home depot.

I'm not doubting you here, well kind of I guess I am!!!

It's just that it's been my experience, mechanics wise, that WD40 is generally used as a SHORT term solution to a problem.

I.E. A stuck lugnut. WD40 will loosen it. A stuck bicycle chain on the other hand, it's works at FIRST... but causes MUCH worse problems down the road.

 

A lot of people misunderstand WD40. It's NOT a lubricant. It's dissolves shit.

 

BUT in this case it doesn't sound like lube is what we want, but dissolving that fine metal isn't something I want to do either.

If anyone can back up what your saying, I might try it.

I have a pair of paddles giving me trouble... I've been considering looking for some new ones, but if this can ACTUALLY help...

Edited August 30, 2020 by Torr

[Tantan]

7 hours ago, Torr said:

I'm not doubting you here, well kind of I guess I am!!!

It's just that it's been my experience, mechanics wise, that WD40 is generally used as a SHORT term solution to a problem.

I.E. A stuck lugnut. WD40 will loosen it. A stuck bicycle chain on the other hand, it's works at FIRST... but causes MUCH worse problems down the road.

 

A lot of people misunderstand WD40. It's NOT a lubricant. It's dissolves shit.

 

BUT in this case it doesn't sound like lube is what we want, but dissolving that fine metal isn't something I want to do either.

If anyone can back up what your saying, I might try it.

I have a pair of paddles giving me trouble... I've been considering looking for some new ones, but if this can ACTUALLY help...

Good point.  Perhaps its better to use the one that has lub properties.  see https://www.wd40.com/products/silicone-lubricant/  I have not used this one before but will try it  

[Klemen]

 

 

I've recorded some videos to show my paddle problem. As you can see, paddles are completely still when position on one side, but when rotated to the other side, they are extremely jittery - even when paddles aren't being moved. As mentioned in the original post, the paddles have been cleaned thoroughly (I have taken apart the pots and cleaned them with electric cleaner spray and applied dielectric grease).

 

14 hours ago, Tantan said:

Are they original Atari paddles?

Yes, they are original Atari paddles. One set are the usual CX-30 paddles, the other set are the original Heavy Sixer paddles. All paddles on both connector ports display the same issue.

 

14 hours ago, Tantan said:

Paddles on Atari 2600 units work based on a RC timing circuit (resistor+capacitor in series).  The Paddle's pot is the resistor and there is a capacitor in the unit.  The system times how long it takes for capacitor to charge and this varies based on the POT position.  The larger the resistance (in your case the lower part of the screen) the longer it takes to charge.  This is how the system coverts analog position of the paddle to digital value in the unit.  As capacitors age they tend to become lower in precision and thus the time it takes to charge slightly varies and thus they become less accurate on the high end in RC timing circuits.  When the pot is closer to the bottom, you have less resistance so it the capacitor charges quickly, thus its more accurate in this area.  You can generally expect slightly higher jitter on top end in most RC circuits, but if it is dramatic, its likely poor precision capacitors on the unit.  Try some of the other ports and see if they are the same?  If all the ports are all the same, then its probably not a specific capacitor of a port and its either the lot of capacitors used in the unit built.

Hm, that's what I was afraid of. Luckily I already have spare capacitors on hand, I hope that'll do the trick. Thanks for the information.