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Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure

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1 hour ago, sd32 said:

Also, I feel like even color wise Jag Pitfall isn’t that impressive... compared with some of the Jaguar exclusives. Isn’t it based on the Windows version? Which is 256 colors. Thus there would be no thousand of color graphics on the Jag port.

A quick correction: 

 

The Jag version is a least thousands of colors on screen.

 

256 colors per screen is what the SNES can do (Genesis is much less at 64 colors).  If the SNES version is clearly more dithered, has worse gradients, larger blocks of solid color etc, at 256 colors per screen, then the Jag is at least thousands for sure.

 

I own the Jag version on actual hardware and played just the other day the SNES version for the first time in a long time on emulator. 

 

I was shocked how worse the graphics are on the SNES. I was expecting much closer to the Jag version, but nope. 

 

Framerate and gameplay are another matter, but Jag wins on graphics by a mile.

 

EDIT: unless of course the SNES is not even 256 colors (which it should be, as that is the default for the SNES hardware)

Edited by marcio_napoli

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The thing about the SNES is that in theory it can display 256 colors, but no game hits that mark save for maybe menus or static screens. It’s usually around 150 colors due to limitations in the way it can display them.
 

The PC version looks more colorful because even though it could also display 256 colors, it has less restrictions in the way it can display them. But i am not sure the Jag version is identical to that one.

 

The Jag port sure is more colorful than the other console versions but I doubt it’s in the thousand of colors. 

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3 hours ago, sd32 said:

The thing about the SNES is that in theory it can display 256 colors, but no game hits that mark save for maybe menus or static screens. It’s usually around 150 colors due to limitations in the way it can display them.
 

The PC version looks more colorful because even though it could also display 256 colors, it has less restrictions in the way it can display them. But i am not sure the Jag version is identical to that one.

 

The Jag port sure is more colorful than the other console versions but I doubt it’s in the thousand of colors. 

Imagitec were hyping the planned Amiga CD32 version as running in 256 colours, but that never arrived. 

 

The base platform, that all other versions apparently are based around, was the Genesis version. 

 

Had interview with coder done years ago, probably been lost if not on way back machine 

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13 hours ago, sd32 said:

Also, I feel like even color wise Jag Pitfall isn’t that impressive... compared with some of the Jaguar exclusives. Isn’t it based on the Windows version? Which is 256 colors. Thus there would be no thousand of color graphics on the Jag port.

I don't think so,  after I decided to get rid of my Jaguar,  I bought Pitfall on Windows,  and it just didn't look as good, which was disappointing

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14 hours ago, sd32 said:

So to me, Jag Pitfall and Raiden do play worse than the Genesis versions (and sound but that’s debatable). But Raiden in the SNES has the worst performance of all, that one is unplayable.

That right there sums up the Jaguar experience back when it was new.  On one hand, we had ads SCREAMING (literally) to "Do the Math", 64-bits, etc.  On the other hand (reality), we had ports of 16-bit Genesis games, which played better on the Genesis.  Very frustrating times.  One thing that has remained constant over the past quarter century though, are the people saying "Just wait until the Jag's full potential is revealed, then you'll be blown away!"

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1 hour ago, Stephen said:

That right there sums up the Jaguar experience back when it was new.  On one hand, we had ads SCREAMING (literally) to "Do the Math", 64-bits, etc.  On the other hand (reality), we had ports of 16-bit Genesis games, which played better on the Genesis.  Very frustrating times.  One thing that has remained constant over the past quarter century though, are the people saying "Just wait until the Jag's full potential is revealed, then you'll be blown away!"

The Jags potential was revealed, but only by a few games. 

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People also need to understand what a contractual conversion entails. 

 

 

I'm going to use Dreamcast Spiderman as an example. 

 

Treyarch were given the task of converting the Neversoft Playstation code to the Sega 128 bit architecture. 

 

 

Whilst they remapped controls for the DC pad, tweaked boss A. I after complaints original was too easy, improved animation etc.. you could still feel and see the Playstation origins, especially with the fogging remaining. 

 

 

Any major  level design or gameplay changes would of had to of been approved by Neversoft for a start. 

 

 

Imagitec Design were well known within the industry for handling conversions, Atari wanted a conversion of Pitfall to the Jaguar, that's what Imagitec gave them. 

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3 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

People also need to understand what a contractual conversion entails. 

 

 

I'm going to use Dreamcast Spiderman as an example. 

 

Treyarch were given the task of converting the Neversoft Playstation code to the Sega 128 bit architecture. 

 

 

Whilst they remapped controls for the DC pad, tweaked boss A. I after complaints original was too easy, improved animation etc.. you could still feel and see the Playstation origins, especially with the fogging remaining. 

 

 

Any major  level design or gameplay changes would of had to of been approved by Neversoft for a start. 

 

 

Imagitec Design were well known within the industry for handling conversions, Atari wanted a conversion of Pitfall to the Jaguar, that's what Imagitec gave them. 

Not only Lost Dragon is super right, but that's also one reason I praise the Jag version so much.

 

It could very well have been just a port from the SNES version, nothing more, with exactly the same artwork, colors, sprites, etc.

 

After all, why should they care for a system that sold so poorly...  could have gone the easiest route.

 

Instead, if you exclude framerate (which to some people it's not a problem at all), the Jag got the best version.  

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11 minutes ago, marcio_napoli said:

Not only Lost Dragon is super right, but that's also one reason I praise the Jag version so much.

 

It could very well have been just a port from the SNES version, nothing more, with exactly the same artwork, colors, sprites, etc.

 

After all, why should they care for a system that sold so poorly...  could have gone the easiest route.

 

Instead, if you exclude framerate (which to some people it's not a problem at all), the Jag got the best version.  

😊 Thank you, your far too kind. 

 

 

Checkered Flag is another example, control issues aside,Rebellion themselves made clear Atari approached them to make a plain polygon racing game under contract and that's exactly what they did. 

 

It was far from a good racing game, granted, but visually, it was exactly what was asked of them, nothing more. 

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4 hours ago, marcio_napoli said:

Not only Lost Dragon is super right, but that's also one reason I praise the Jag version so much.

 

It could very well have been just a port from the SNES version, nothing more, with exactly the same artwork, colors, sprites, etc.

 

After all, why should they care for a system that sold so poorly...  could have gone the easiest route.

 

Instead, if you exclude framerate (which to some people it's not a problem at all), the Jag got the best version.  

wish somebody would convert Batman returns on Sega CD to the jaguar. 

 

:(

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I became a fan of what few platformers the Jaguar had (Bubsy, Rayman, Zool 2, Soccer Kid) and Pitfall is a welcome part of the platformers.

 

In the comparison with the SNES version I did notice one difference and that was the final boss.  It is like the code for the final boss and how he forms and actively attacks the main character was not completely implemented.  On the Jaguar version the final boss forms and tends to fall back more

 

Other than the final boss I had a lot of fun playing Pitfall, even discovering a trick, and would say it was solid game.

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I think one of the better videos comparing Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure has to be from Digital Foundry:

 

The author of the video, John Linneman, also interview Bill Kroyer of Kroyer Films about his past works including P:TMA as well...

 

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21 hours ago, JagChris said:

So the Jaguar Pitfall isn't even complete?

 

Quite amazing game gameplay and graphically speaking, just seems like the playtesters didn't know what the final boss was supposed to do.   I mean the final boss is still challenging, just should have been more.

 

Which is ok, because probably 90% of the people who try Jaguar Pitfall probably won't get to the final boss.  :P

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That's generous, since the original code should have answered that question. 

 

Atari and those lowest bidders.

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On 9/18/2020 at 2:05 PM, marcio_napoli said:

Instead, if you exclude framerate (which to some people it's not a problem at all), the Jag got the best version.  

 

"You know, if we discount one of the worst aspects of the game--and one of the aspects that truly makes it a chore to play--we can consider it the best version. So yeah, let's roll with that. It's the best version."

 

🤪

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1 hour ago, Austin said:

 

"You know, if we discount one of the worst aspects of the game--and one of the aspects that truly makes it a chore to play--we can consider it the best version. So yeah, let's roll with that. It's the best version."

 

🤪

I didn't even notice a frame-rate difference until it was mentioned in this thread.   It really isn't an issue for many people.

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4 hours ago, zzip said:

I didn't even notice a frame-rate difference until it was mentioned in this thread.   It really isn't an issue for many people.

I generally agree. I was not aware of that frame rate "issue" either. Like I mentioned before, reviews of the 90s were not too. E.g. the german magazine "Maniac" was notorious for giving Jaguar games harsh scores (like AvP 58%) but they praised the Jaguar version for being the best version and scored it 85%. ST magazine scored it high as well, saying it runs better than the PC version (on an 486) and being the second best platformer for the Jaguar (behind Rayman).

 

Personally I don't have an huge issue with that. Playing Indies on the Vita, a lot of them run only 30 FPS instead of 60 FPS.

Edited by agradeneu

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Frame rate issues being that big a deal are usually reserved for the pretentious.

 

Everything gotta be max resolution blah blah blah

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24 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Frame rate issues being that big a deal are usually reserved for the pretentious.

Go play Supercross 3D for a while, then.

 

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32 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Frame rate issues being that big a deal are usually reserved for the pretentious.

Tell us all again about Rebellion...

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The frame rate was never really my bitch with Rebellion. But tell us all again about the stuff you make up.

 

I'm referring to the 30-60 fps debate. 30fps! Oh it's reprehensible! Harumph harumph! Pretentious.

 

Though it would have been nice to have it and makes no sense why they didn't.

 

Edited by JagChris

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51 minutes ago, JagChris said:

The frame rate was never really my bitch with Rebellion. But tell us all again about the stuff you make up.

 

I'm referring to the 30-60 fps debate. 30fps! Oh it's reprehensible! Harumph harumph! Pretentious.

 

Though it would have been nice to have it and makes no sense why they didn't.

 

I think the issue though, is not the fact the game was 30fps.  It's about consistency.  You do not want a game's framerate jumping all over the place.  If it can only maintain 60fps maybe 75% of the time, it's usually better experience to lock it to 30fps.  With it being steady, you'll not notice it.  But Pitfall doesn't manage 60fps ever (16-bit Genesis did - Sega does what Atari-don't).  It can't even maintain 30 steadily.  This jumping is VERY evident to me - I guess the same reason that I am so susceptible to flicker.  When listening to music, a .1 second stutter is jarring as hell to me - I am very sensitive to this being that I play drums (poorly) / focus on that.

 

I wonder if it's the same thing?  Many people won't hear a stutter in music, nor will they see any signs of flicker.  Could be that the visual un-steadiness is also not noticed?  Not saying that noticing vs not noticing is wrong, just that maybe some people don't see it, rather than not caring about it?

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