Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Just now, Al_Nafuur said: Also we should aim for a solution that includes @batari's interest regarding the Harmony cart. Very good. Since you are in a much stronger technical position than @batari, linking the two issues together, will help a lot. And it will be for the benefit of the whole community. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHairy Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 39 minutes ago, Al_Nafuur said: Furthermore, I am not "authorized" to make a "deal" regarding the UnoCart with him, it is @DirtyHairy's, @electrotrains', and @ZackAttack's project. Also we should aim for a solution that includes @batari's interest regarding the Harmony cart. As for the firmware (Unocart and Pluscart), I don't see any room or need for a "deal" --- the conditions of the GPL are clear, and he has to follow them: he needs to publish the source. The situation regarding the sale of pirated harmony carts is clear as well: it is illegal and infringes copyright. Personally, I am waiting on how the pirated harmony carts play out before entering any dialogue with him --- I think this is much worse than the violation of the GPL, and I feel silly arguing with someone who stole my bike when I know that he robbed a bank the other day, too After that, I'll decide on whether and what I will be doing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackAttack Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I agree with @DirtyHairy, pirated harmony carts is not acceptable and I don't want work with anyone that continues to do so. My stance is either he comes into full compliance for all projects or he's not welcome in any of them. Hopefully he goes with the former since he appears to be capable of making some good contributions to the community. Btw, are we sure that they are in fact pirated? If he designed the board and firmware from scratch that wouldn't be any different than uno and plus cart supporting dpc+ games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 hour ago, ZackAttack said: Btw, are we sure that they are in fact pirated? If he designed the board and firmware from scratch that wouldn't be any different than uno and plus cart supporting dpc+ games. I guess the PCB is definitely different to the original Harmony. Afaik the SD slot is on the other side than the original. He has designed all his PCBs to fit into his shells. btw. These shells are another interesting thing we could benefit from, somehow he has managed to produce them in larger amounts and good quality. But I also guess that the firmware is simply copied/dumped from the Harmony. The offer on mercato livre (which is most likely his) has the original Harmony label and name. Interestingly he is selling his UnoCart variant as "Everdrive" with a custom label. 1 hour ago, ZackAttack said: I agree with @DirtyHairy, pirated harmony carts is not acceptable and I don't want work with anyone that continues to do so. My stance is either he comes into full compliance for all projects or he's not welcome in any of them. Hopefully he goes with the former since he appears to be capable of making some good contributions to the community. I hope so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHairy Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 11/4/2020 at 9:04 PM, ZackAttack said: Btw, are we sure that they are in fact pirated? If he designed the board and firmware from scratch that wouldn't be any different than uno and plus cart supporting dpc+ games. At the very least, he is faking the appearance of the cartridge, and he is selling under the name "ATARI-AGE-BR". Of course, it is impossible to tell without examining an actual cart, but I strongly suspect he has reverse engineered the hardware and uses the firmware published for the harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 Seems like there has been an official sales start of the unofficial Brazilian PlusCart retailer. https://www.facebook.com/dabliogames ? Looks like the first PlusCarts have already reached their new owners. We have 5 new users with Portuguese language setting since November 3rd. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prizrak Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 And it begins....Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Al_Nafuur said: Seems like there has been an official sales start of the unofficial Brazilian PlusCart retailer. https://www.facebook.com/dabliogames ? Looks like the first PlusCarts have already reached their new owners. We have 5 new users with Portuguese language setting since November 3rd. That's bold! I thought you were in contact with him? What's behind the F***Book link? Is that a typo maybe (diablogamesretro)? I have no account. Edited November 8, 2020 by Thomas Jentzsch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) double post Edited November 8, 2020 by Thomas Jentzsch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: What's behind the F***Book link? Is that a typo maybe (diablogamesretro)? I have no account. There are two facebook pages. The second one seems to be his private one, you have to be logged in to see it. (I also don't have an account, but I had a look with someone else's account) 14 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: That's bold! I thought you were in contact with him? After he offered to release the PCB and his support as beta tester and maintaining the Brazilian ROMs. I replied that we would like to collaborate with him, but we have decided to wait with any further steps until the issue with the Harmony-Cart piracy is solved. (btw. @DirtyHairy has batari contacted him and could the issue be solved?) He replied that his Harmony-Carts are UnoCarts with Harmony label and that he don't sell them with that label anymore. Also he has sent me a new label design for his UnoCart (Everdrive), asking if this label would be okay. I replied to him that he has to contact @DirtyHairy, @ZackAttack and @electrotrains regarding the UnoCart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Al_Nafuur said: He replied that his Harmony-Carts are UnoCarts with Harmony label Quote Em desenvolvimento, placa nova que vai permitir montar cartuchos especiais atari-age ... jogos como draconian, mappy, super cobra arcade, bouder dash, chetiry, stay frosty 2, frantic, scramble, space rocks, timmy, e até galaga assim que sair a rom ! DeepL: Quote In development, new card that will allow mounting special cartridges atari-age ... games like draconian, mappy, super snake arcade, bouder dash, chetiry, stay frosty 2, frantic, scramble, space rocks, timmy, and even galaga as soon as it comes out rom ! Since when does UnoCart support these? My ass! Also, the board layout doesn't fit to a STM32 (4x16 pins), but to a LPC2103 (4x12 pins). I am 100% sure he pirated the Harmony carts. Edited November 8, 2020 by Thomas Jentzsch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackAttack Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Rather than disabling the carts, you could create a simple rom that puts up some text with a message to the end user and then redirect all their downloads to it. That way they can be informed that the device they purchased is in violation of GPL and where to legally obtain harmony, uno, and plus carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 It is probably easier to use the existing PlusCard menu code. Meanwhile I checked the comments of the "Harmony" carts sold in the marketplace. These indicate that at least these cards are actually UnoCards with a Harmony card label. But in his F***Book account, he clearly posted Harmony layouts and boards. It seems like he sold Harmony card pirates last year, then switched to UnoCards and now to PlusCards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, ZackAttack said: Rather than disabling the carts, you could create a simple rom that puts up some text with a message to the end user and then redirect all their downloads to it. That way they can be informed that the device they purchased is in violation of GPL and where to legally obtain harmony, uno, and plus carts. We can do this very easily, we don't need to do an extra ROM for this. We have discussed this before: but so far he is not violating the GPL with the PlusCart. As far as I can see he has not done a custom firmware (Which would be a bit pointless. Because as long as the PlusCarts use our PlusStore the custom firmware would get replaced with an update). Also he is using the original PlusCart labels for his cartridges. But I'm a little surprised and angry, that since I told him that I found his public facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pg/dabliogamesretro) and that it is okay to produce and sell PlusCarts, but he should work on his cummonication with the original creator, he has moved the PlusCart related posts to his private facebook page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHairy Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: DeepL: Since when does UnoCart support these? My ass! Also, the board layout doesn't fit to a STM32 (4x16 pins), but to a LPC2103 (4x12 pins). I am 100% sure he pirated the Harmony carts. What Thomas writes ? 1 hour ago, Al_Nafuur said: but so far he is not violating the GPL with the PlusCart. As far as I can see he has not done a custom firmware (Which would be a bit pointless. Because as long as the PlusCarts use our PlusStore the custom firmware would get replaced with an update). Also he is using the original PlusCart labels for his cartridges. He must distribute the firmware under the same terms and conditions (the GPL) and offer access to the source code (or distribute it together with the cartridge). It's impossible to judge without buying a cartridge, but I am not under the impression that he is doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 11 hours ago, Al_Nafuur said: But I'm a little surprised and angry, that since I told him that I found his public facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pg/dabliogamesretro) and that it is okay to produce and sell PlusCarts, but he should work on his cummonication with the original creator, he has moved the PlusCart related posts to his private facebook page. I had the chance to check his private page today again, and it seems that all the posts regarding the PlusCart have been made before I contacted him and even before he announced the PlusCart on his public page. Also it seems that he hasn't read my last PM yet. His last visit to AtariAge was before I sent the PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 https://www.twingalaxies.com/scott-s/wall/8754/beware-of-dablio-games-they-are-pirates 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 I thought they are no pirates? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Quoting a comment in the thread on that page... boldface to highlight comment of interest to me... Quote Btw, you claim Gutierrez told you he is an official partner of the creators, and an official beta tester, and that a partnership is official, that he is an authorized representative of the Pluscard product here in Brazil. Considering Wolfgang's name is nowhere on Gutierrez's Pluscart knockoff, I'll wait to hear confirmation of that from Wolfgang Stubig before taking the word of a known pirate. "official partner"... "authorized representative".... is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said: "official partner"... "authorized representative".... is this correct? I haven't read the whole thread, but I have read that comment and I was very amazed at his creative interpretation of my messages. Here is my first message, which I sent him before I found his supposed "Harmony-Cart" on the Brazilian online marketplace: Quote Hi DablioGames, i have seen your facebook page https://www.facebook.com/dabliogamesretro and your PlusCarts there. Very nice work and a nice PCB layout you have done. The PlusCart firmware and PCB layout is open source, so you can produce and sell them as you like. But keep in mind that the GPL also includes some obligations for you, like stating your source and hand the GPL to your customer. In general it is a nice sign of respect to at least acknowledge the original creator of a project, and maybe explain where you are heading and what you are planning to contribute to the project (like translating the manual, or releasing your PCB layout, or what ever you might think would help the project) btw. This all also refers to your version of the UnoCart. If you like, I can send you an invitation for the PlusCart beta tester Club here at AtariAge. There you can get more information about the PlusCart project and the GPL, and you can take part on the discussions about the project in general. kind regards, Wolfgang Here is a quoting from my second message, after I found the "Harmony-Cart" labeled cartridge and the pictures on his facebook page that looked like harmony PCBs: Quote Currently there is a lot of discussion going on, because of your version of the "Harmony-Cart". The Harmony is not open source, so it is not allowed to produce and sell it without the permission of AtariAge user batari. Maybe he already has contacted you about this, and I hope you can come to an agreement. Thank you for your offer about the PCB, the homebrew ROMs and beta testing. We really would like to collaborate with you, but we have decided to wait with any further steps until the issue with the Harmony-Cart is solved. He still hasn't read my last (third) message, so this message can not be the base of his opinion that he is "The official, authorized representative of the Pluscard product in Brazil." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Ahoy, can't pirates just be pirates? This is interesting but confusing - if the Brazilians have permission to use the PlusCart they are technically no longer pirates unless possibly violating the GPL and many legitimate companies like Microsoft and Oracle never release source with GPL components that they make no modifications to, so the Brazilians are now seemingly reformed Pirates though rude for hiding the page - acting like pirates perhaps? Sony quite clearly pirated GPL code when they built a root-kit for their CD's modifying open source code but I guess sharing their changes would have defeated the purpose of Sony quietly taking over your PC; I always wondered how the GPL could be honored properly in legitimate security projects, it always get's treated like freeware because those changes cannot be released. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-696810302-atari-multicart-carto-sd-video-game-jogo-fita-cartucho-2600-_JM#searchVariation=32635809003&position=4&type=item&tracking_id=f876848e-ff4a-4a29-a340-0ab745809403 ? New labels, and screenshot shows R.Edwards in footer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Getting better, no? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 14 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Getting better, no? seems like.. If he refers to the GPL on the third last page of his manual (like most legitimate companies), then he is fully GPL compliant. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Al_Nafuur Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 https://shopee.com.br/Cartucho-Atari-2600-com-Wi-fi-Pluscart-conecte-seu-console-na-internet-para-baixar-os-jogos-incrivel-fita-video-game-jogo-i.335241819.7761986328 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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