In Defense of 9 Oft-Berated Atari 7800 Games...

[6502wrangler]

7 hours ago, GoldenWheels said:

Hmmm....in what sense? It controls worse, and it looks worse, and it sounds worse (oh GOD)

 

Now Joust....THERE is a game that actually tears the NES version a new @$$#&@^.

 

 

 

I agree with the sound and graphics of course but the gameplay was closer to the arcade feel in my opinion. I played the arcade version a lot (and have beaten it on a few quarters) and what was nice about it was the zen-like rhythm you could get into. In the arcade version it was the reverse elbow, in the 7800 version it was the front kick but otherwise similar. So that's it for me. The NES version didn't taken me to that place. 

 

Now Food Fight. That was the killer app for the 7800 for me. 

 

 

[ZylonBane]

On 12/1/2020 at 8:28 PM, BydoEmpire said:

Dark Chambers is good on paper, not in practice. It's simply boring.  The "shoot monsters to devolve them" is kind of stupid, and there's no challenge or exploration.

Dark Chambers is a nearly direct port of Dandy Dungeon ("Dandy" being a reference to "D&D"), an Atari Program Exchange title. The creator of Gauntlet, which came out a few years later, stated that Dandy was a direct inspiration.

 

So basically, Atari wanted Gauntlet on their home consoles, but Jack didn't want to pay to license it, so they ported Dandy, which they already owned the rights to.

[BydoEmpire]

7 hours ago, ZylonBane said:

Dark Chambers is a nearly direct port of Dandy Dungeon ("Dandy" being a reference to "D&D"), an Atari Program Exchange title. The creator of Gauntlet, which came out a few years later, stated that Dandy was a direct inspiration.

 

So basically, Atari wanted Gauntlet on their home consoles, but Jack didn't want to pay to license it, so they ported Dandy, which they already owned the rights to.

I know, but Gauntlet is still a much better game (imho of course).

[Giles N]

As I take this post, its not

 to say all games are triple-A titles, just they may be much better than some general retro-game-rumour.

 

I think anyway Ninja Golf is a TrippelA for the 7800.

 

and I’ve had fun with all the rest of the games listed.

[Cousin Vinnie]

15 minutes ago, Giles N said:

As I take this post, its not

 to say all games are triple-A titles, just they may be much better than some general retro-game-rumour.

 

I think anyway Ninja Golf is a TrippelA for the 7800.

 

and I’ve had fun with all the rest of the games listed.

You're right- these games are mainly marginal games that need to be reconsidered and not totally lumped into the Mat Mania Challenge and Realsports Baseball bin. 

Ninja Golf, on the other hand,  gets torn apart by SOME retro gamers, Ive seen. Atarians are fond of it, as am I. That's why I felt like it needed some funk love. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Cousin Vinnie

[Giles N]

Last summer I was actually really, really trying to beat Double Dragon 7800 far, far into the summer-holiday-nights...

 

... it must have had something to it...

Edited December 7, 2020 by Giles N

[Cousin Vinnie]

Not trying to shill, but the guide on my site may prove helpful. Plus theres a video of me kicking the robot's azz on it too. You might pick up a new trick or two.

 
http://www.atari7800forever.com/doubledragonc.html

Edited December 8, 2020 by Cousin Vinnie

[+GoldLeader]

So...Lemme get this straight,  I Don't have to go defending JINKS again?    Good cuz I think it's Awesome! 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Just now, GoldLeader said:

So...Lemme get this straight,  I Don't have to go defending JINKS again?    Good cuz I think it's Awesome! 

I re-reviewed it based on your defense of the game... totally open minded. I raised the grade. Still got a migraine in my eyeball. The little ball hates me. 

[+GoldLeader]

3 minutes ago, Cousin Vinnie said:

I re-reviewed it based on your defense of the game... totally open minded. I raised the grade. Still got a migraine in my eyeball. The little ball hates me. 

 

Let's just say it's not for everyone.  

 

What I like about it is that it's original with its own world and its own art style, it's unique looking, and has different color palettes for different levels, but that doesn't mean I play it all the time, just that I genuinely like it when I do

[Giles N]

Fret not Atari-brethren!

 

To the resque:

 

Giles’ Mini-reviews:

System: Atari7800 Prosystem

 

Choplifter:

Gametype: both right and left scrolling shot and bomb enemies, load prisoners on the choplifter and bring back to base.

Graphics:7/10

Sound:6/10

Gameplay: 7/10

Lastability: 3/10

Overall:6/10

Comment:  mostly for those who do digg choplifter, and go over and over the mission again and again trying to beat their own hi-score

 

 

Dark Chambers

Gametype: Dungeon Crawler/Gauntlet-type game.

Graphics: 7/10

Sound:7/10

Gameplay: 7/10

Lastability:7/10

Comment: 

On difficulty settings 1 and 2 its just too easy, and diffculty 3 forces the players to be 2 simultanous or don’t stand a chance.

Many nice atmospheric dungeons though, even a little wood-crawling.

If the 7800 hadn’t been discontinued, they pretty sure released a more advanced Dark Chambers 2 of sorts.

 

 

 

Desert Falcon

Gametype isometric perspective shooter. (Yes quite like Xaxxon).

Graphics: 7.5/10

Sound: 8/10

Gameplay: 8/10

Lastability: 8,5/10

Comment: sort of surrealistic mission, be a falcon a grab gems while gunning down all sorts of aegyptican critters, crawlers and firespitting sphinxes.

Land on water, and paddle about like duck, then take of blast ‘em down...

 

 

Double Dragon:

Gametype: classic beat em up (in sort of 3d as you move up and down into the ‘depth’ of the playfield:

Graphics: 7/10

Sound: 6.5/10

Gameplay: use rapid multiple punches to knock em down: 4,5/10, use 2-3 normal kicks followed by punch: 7/10)

Lastability: 8/10

Comment: see above

 

Fatal Run

Gametype: endurance car shooter

Graphics: 8/10

Sound:8/10

Gameplay: 7/10

Lastability: 8,5/10

This is not like Roadblasters which was arcade action; this is long, more indepth game where you must play your cards right as money, choice of gear, when to just hit pedal and try to outrun baddies, or when to slow down to fight them.

More of an indepth car shooter

 

Ninja Golf

Gametype: beat-em-up with golf-elements... and shuriken-throwing at dragons

Graphics:9/10

Sound: 7/10

Gameplay: 9,5/10

Lastability: 9/10

Comment: if you fall for this, you’ll come back for more... and such styled cartoon-action grfx! It looks so colorful and neat as say Sonic The Hedgehog on the SMS!

 

Planet Smashers

Gametype: shoot-em-up with a few strategical elements

Graphics: 6,5/10

Sound: 5/10

Gameplay: 8/10

Lastability:7/10

Comment:

Background is very repetitive. Foreground is either meteroids or Big Bosses. Some messy action. Clean and straightforward controls. 

 

Pole Position 2

Gametype:

F1 Arcade Race.

Graphics: 7/10

Sound: 7/10

Playability:7,5/10

Lastability: 8/10

Comment: captures many, but not all aspects of the Arcade original.

But a fun racer, well worth spending some hours with.

 

Tower Toppler

Gametype: platform/climber/puzzler

Graphics: 8/10

Sound: 8/10

Gameplay: 7/10

Lastability: 7,5/10

Comment: in almost all puzzle-games there are tricks and techniques must be learned to master the game. Also such here. This is both a platformer and puzzler, where learning from trying and failing is a part of the game.

[Giles N]

Perhaps I was a bit generous with some of the games here, and should off course have said) play only Dark Chambers on one continue or, if with friend, as long as both keep each other alive.

 

And for choplifter, I should of course have mentioned that the problem was that it has only one level.

[Giles N]

Dunno why it came out as large text.

[Cousin Vinnie]

On 12/8/2020 at 9:08 PM, Giles N said:

Dunno why it came out as large text.

It was to intimidate me

[Giles N]

13 hours ago, Cousin Vinnie said:

It was to intimidate me

Lols - but I gave them fair reviews, didn’t I??

[Giles N]

13 hours ago, Cousin Vinnie said:

It was to intimidate me

(Pssth: check out the Scrapyard Dog, starring ‘Scraps The Dog’ hack, made by KevinMos3 and me doing the basics for the Dog (—> Hacks —> 7800 — Scrapyard Dog).

[Cousin Vinnie]

1 hour ago, Giles N said:

(Pssth: check out the Scrapyard Dog, starring ‘Scraps The Dog’ hack, made by KevinMos3 and me doing the basics for the Dog (—> Hacks —> 7800 — Scrapyard Dog).

 

I don't do emulation YET... but Im getting the Ultimate Atari Fight Stick with Trac ball for Christmas. When I figure out how to do roms... I sho nuff willz

 

Chopfilfter 6/10--- I gave it a 3/5... so we are right on the money

Dark Chambers 7/10--- I gave it a 3/5... we are pretty close

Desert Falcon 8/10--- I gave it a 4/5.... right on the money

Double Dragon 7/10--- I gave it a 2.5/5, but on the old site I gave it a 4/5

Fatal Run 8/10--- I gave it a 2.5/5... but I truly do love the game

Ninja Golf 9/10--- I gave it a 4/5... pretty close

Planet Smashers 6.5/10--- I have  it at 3/5... pretty close again

Pole Position 2 7.5/10---- I gave it a 3/5

Tower Toppler 7.5/10--- I gave it a 4.5/5... I actually liked it more than you... I think its funktastic

 

 

So yeah man, we are pretty close on these things. I'd say we are of the same ilk

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Cousin Vinnie

[Giles N]

3 hours ago, Cousin Vinnie said:

 

I don't do emulation YET... but Im getting the Ultimate Atari Fight Stick with Trac ball for Christmas. When I figure out how to do roms... I sho nuff willz

 

Chopfilfter 6/10--- I gave it a 3/5... so we are right on the money

Dark Chambers 7/10--- I gave it a 3/5... we are pretty close

Desert Falcon 8/10--- I gave it a 4/5.... right on the money

Double Dragon 7/10--- I gave it a 2.5/5, but on the old site I gave it a 4/5

Fatal Run 8/10--- I gave it a 2.5/5... but I truly do love the game

Ninja Golf 9/10--- I gave it a 4/5... pretty close

Planet Smashers 6.5/10--- I have  it at 3/5... pretty close again

Pole Position 2 7.5/10---- I gave it a 3/5

Tower Toppler 7.5/10--- I gave it a 4.5/5... I actually liked it more than you... I think its funktastic

 

 

So yeah man, we are pretty close on these things. I'd say we are of the same ilk

 

 

 

YEAH - same ilk man!!

[Giles N]

3 hours ago, Cousin Vinnie said:

 

I don't do emulation YET... but I

 

 

So yeah man, we are pretty close on these things. I'd say we are of the same ilk

 

 

 

Just get the Scrapyard Dog file; load it and produce it through - for example - AtariAge - onto your cart.

 

You get to be the Dog, saving your owner..., cartoon style an’ all

[Giles N]

3 hours ago, Cousin Vinnie said:

 

I'd say we are of the same ilk

 

- - - 

Yeah, same ilk man!

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Giles N

[Lynxpro]

On 12/3/2020 at 7:14 PM, ZylonBane said:

Dark Chambers is a nearly direct port of Dandy Dungeon ("Dandy" being a reference to "D&D"), an Atari Program Exchange title. The creator of Gauntlet, which came out a few years later, stated that Dandy was a direct inspiration.

 

So basically, Atari wanted Gauntlet on their home consoles, but Jack didn't want to pay to license it, so they ported Dandy, which they already owned the rights to.

 

Remember, Atari Games/Tengen at the time was complying with Nintendo's licensing agreement - while working to defeat the 10NES chip with their Rabbit chip in their lab - so even if they were willing to license Gauntlet to Tramiel's Atari Corp, they couldn't since any game sold on the NES was restricted for 2 years before being able to be licensed to a competing system. 

 

The creator of Gauntlet, Ed Logg, was an enthusiastic Atari 8-bit and Atari ST owner. Back when Atari Inc was still a single company under Warner, he was one of the few programmers and engineers who actually liked the Nintendo Famicom and supported Atari licensing it instead of waiting for GCC to complete the 7800. He programmed for the Famicom and if I recall correctly, he also did the NES version of Gauntlet including all of its dramatic changes from his arcade original. Logg was also the reason why Atari Games became interested in Tetris. He showed Atari Games' management Tetris on his Atari ST and convinced them they should do an arcade version and a console version. 

 

John Palevich created Dandy, sold it through APX, and later became an Atari Inc employee [he worked on programming for the AMY sound chip and other projects]. He sued Atari Games over Gauntlet and settled for receiving a credit added to the game as well as an arcade cabinet. Atari Corp licensed Dandy and adapted it into more of a Gauntlet clone. It's too bad Dark Chambers isn't 4-player like Dandy and Gauntlet.

[Rick Dangerous]

Double Dragon on 7800 is so bad it actually puts me in an angry dark place just thinking about it.  I sold my cart for scrap just to get rid of it. 

 

Most of the rest of these I like, and some are among my favorites.  I've never gotten the hate for Dark Chambers?  It's like a more relaxed version of Gauntlet that you can actually sit back and enjoy. 

[Giles N]

4 hours ago, Rick Dangerous said:

Double Dragon on 7800 is so bad it actually puts me in an angry dark place just thinking about it.  I sold my cart for scrap just to get rid of it. 

 

Most of the rest of these I like, and some are among my favorites.  I've never gotten the hate for Dark Chambers?  It's like a more relaxed version of Gauntlet that you can actually sit back and enjoy. 

For Double Dragon (which I hope to get a KevinMos3 update version on Cart someday), have you tried to play it by - pretty much the same way as the Arcade, just switching punches for kicks; walk up to an enemy - release 2-3 kicks rapidly, then finish off with a punch.

 

It made a whole lot of difference for how I liked the game.

[+thegoldenband]

52 minutes ago, Giles N said:

For Double Dragon (which I hope to get a KevinMos3 update version on Cart someday), have you tried to play it by - pretty much the same way as the Arcade, just switching punches for kicks; walk up to an enemy - release 2-3 kicks rapidly, then finish off with a punch.

 

It made a whole lot of difference for how I liked the game.

My approach to arcade Double Dragon (and NES too) has always been elbow smashes. Those pretty much break the game, though not to the point where it's not fun anymore. Don't remember how that plays out in the 7800 version, nor the 2600 version even though I've beaten that one!

[Giles N]

Took a round of Double Dragon 7800 right now, and using kick as standard attack (punch for surprise or countering flykicks), and some repetitions of flykicks for blocking enemies when they rise from being knocked down, I got through ok.

 

See score and life remaining on screen-shot.

 

It’s actually first time I beat the game

 

???