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Cyberpunk 2077

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53 minutes ago, ls650 said:

Gamers Angry They Can't Refund 'Cyberpunk 2077' And Still Keep The Game

https://www.gamingbible.co.uk/news/games-gamers-angry-they-cant-refund-cyberpunk-2077-and-still-keep-it-20201221

 

As funny as that link/headline initially is, when I actually looked at it, it's a "news story", regurgitated from a competing outlet's (link) "news story," the thrust of which is 'here's literally one random guy on social media who misunderstands life.' 

 

It's a perfect example of what's gone wrong with media.  

The actual story isn't noteworthy enough to be news from the start, and is stretched even thinner when "at least one Cyberpunk 2077 player" seems to magically become multiple "gamers angry" for headline purposes. They seriously couldn't even be bothered to google up a second angry gamer to make their headline technically true. :)

 

Thanks for sharing it, but holy cow have things gotten bad.

Edited by Reaperman

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15 hours ago, youxia said:

I hadn't been nasty to the peds before, but have just tried killing some and can confirm that indeed the cops will spawn right "behind" you, or thereabouts, if you do that. And once I ran away, nobody chased me and it all kinda fizzled out really fast. It's quite ridiculous. I don't think it's as much a bug as simply being a totally underdeveloped system, due to rushing the game out. They definitely need to sort that out pronto in one of the upcoming updates.

Yeah I was afraid that its part of the actual AI system, not some random bug.. there's been reports about how GTA3 back in 2001 does a better job at spawning cops and police chases; improving the AI at this point could be extremely difficult though

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I don't think fixing it should be that hard, they just need to move the spawns a bit farther (could also work for your car, which always appears to be 2 secs away) and implement some sort of "warrant timer". The NPC AI itself is actully not bad at all, which is why firefights are great fun.

 

I'm not a big fan of these "but game X did Y better" comparisons because they are usually very lazy and of apples/oranges persuasion. Yes, both GTA and C2077 are open-city games, but the former is pure action game which focuses on cars, the latter an RPG which is all about first person combat. The other thing people conveniently forget is that combat only started not being a chore GTA somewhere around number 4. It just seems that developing these big games is not that easy, especially when it comes to new IPs.

 

But, yeah, it definitely needs to be sorted out, at least on the basic level because it's quite immersion breaking in the current state. Then later on it could be developed further, eg they could add some sort of morality meter which is absent atm.

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52 minutes ago, youxia said:

I don't think fixing it should be that hard, they just need to move the spawns a bit farther (could also work for your car, which always appears to be 2 secs away) and implement some sort of "warrant timer". The NPC AI itself is actully not bad at all, which is why firefights are great fun.


The spawning problem itself could be fairly easy to fix yes; even if it creates other bugs, I rather have cops being spawned in illogical places outside of sight rather than on top of me. But there might be limitations in the engine to deal for example with the crowd density. Sometimes the easiest ideas can run into issues stemming from complex optimizations.. the reason why I think its not such an easy fix is because to me this is the only real issue with the game so far; graphic glitches can be considered fun but this bug/feature kills immersion quite drastically and it hasn't been addressed in any of the recent patches.

 

The comparison is indeed unfair considering the complexity of the game compared to others, but I guess there are certain expectations nowadays around police interaction in open world games with cars. It's been done several times very well, and this game definitely is trying to define next-gen. I hope they will get this right in an update soon.

 

 

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The recent patches were only hotfixes. I read that they've got a couple of big ones coming, we'll see how things are after that.

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I do start to wonder if there is bias against Cyberpunk. Bethesda release much buggier games, and have a history of only fixing ones people are likely to see in the first 15 minutes of gameplay. Skyrim is still a complete mess even with it being released 4 or 5 times now. Gta has its problems too, but it's the obvious comparison to Cyberpunk even though its clearly been in the business of open world games much longer. 

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On 12/25/2020 at 9:08 AM, Mikebloke said:

Skyrim is still a complete mess [...] Bethesda release much buggier games, and have a history of only fixing ones people are likely to see in the first 15 minutes of gameplay

Ummm....come again? 🤔

 

Yes, there is a bias against Cyberpunk, just the same as there always has been against Bethesda, since Arena was first released. It's exactly the same mechanism: people making either unreasonable or completely made up claims about brokenness and bugs in their games, disregarding their gargantuan complexity and trailblazer status.

 

Which is rather ironical for me. Now I welcome CDRP to the same boat, despite having to put up with being bashed with the Witcher stick for years as a Bethsoft fan - nevermind that these games in turn are a) completely different b) were also buggy in the beginning (just like any other big modern game).

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Cyberpunk 2020 fan and CDPR stock holder here.

 

I find it very ironic that Cyberpunk 2077 fans are defending CDPR to the teeth despite the entire franchise being about the dangers of unethical corporations. CDPR deliberately hid the poor performance of the PS4 and XBONE versions via review embargos and lack of screenshots and videos before release. No amount of forum shilling and desperate coping is going to take back the fact that their stock has lost almost half of it's value since the start of the month and investors have started a class action lawsuit over the lies and misrepresentation

 

Gamers aren't mad about the buggy performance as much as they are mad about the fact that CDPR overpromised and wayyyy underdelivered. And then tried to keep that fact a secret until after people forked their cash over.

Edited by BDW
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Pfew. I'm now 70+ hrs in on PC, doing side quests toward the end(?) of act II. I see problems, but it's not killing my fun, and at this point I no longer think it's premature to call this my favorite video game ever, or my favorite take on the cyberpunk theme.  I was no cdpr/gog fan going in, but what they've done here is amazing. I went in fully expecting a 7/10 game--because it was just going to be CDPR barfing out witcher but with a replacement skin for its "standard fantasy setting" theme.

 

It's a shame some of the console gamers aren't having the time I'm having, because this is really very special. Anyway, back to Night City for me.  I have 11 days off in a row, so I should be able to get myself sick of this game by then, hopefully.

Edited by Reaperman
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9 hours ago, youxia said:

Ummm....come again? 🤔

 

Yes, there is a bias against Cyberpunk, just the same as there always has been against Bethesda, since Arena was first released. It's exactly the same mechanism: people making either unreasonable or completely made up claims about brokenness and bugs in their games, disregarding their gargantuan complexity and trailblazer status.

 

Which is rather ironical for me. Now I welcome CDRP to the same boat, despite having to put up with being bashed with the Witcher stick for years as a Bethsoft fan - nevermind that these games in turn are a) completely different b) were also buggy in the beginning (just like any other big modern game).

I've spent countless hours on fan wikis to find object references so I can fix quests to finish them, so yeah, I'm pooping on Skyrim (and fallout 3, I'll stick New Vegas in there too even though it was Obsidian technically). 

 

I get the feeling CDPR will do more to fix their bugs than Bethesda does, though I dunno about the last gen console system (don't have one yet!) 

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On 12/25/2020 at 4:06 PM, BDW said:

Cyberpunk 2020 fan and CDPR stock holder here.

 

I find it very ironic that Cyberpunk 2077 fans are defending CDPR to the teeth despite the entire franchise being about the dangers of unethical corporations. CDPR deliberately hid the poor performance of the PS4 and XBONE versions via review embargos and lack of screenshots and videos before release. No amount of forum shilling and desperate coping is going to take back the fact that their stock has lost almost half of it's value since the start of the month and investors have started a class action lawsuit over the lies and misrepresentation

 

Gamers aren't mad about the buggy performance as much as they are mad about the fact that CDPR overpromised and wayyyy underdelivered. And then tried to keep that fact a secret until after people forked their cash over.

 

Judging by your post, it seems that your reading comprehension is sorely lacking. And the usage of ad hominems further betrays  the fact that you aren't here to discuss anything with open mind, just to beat your self-righteous drum.

 

Nobody's defending the, ahem, "unethical corporations" and their shady practices (and I at least don't give a toss about the game's kindergarten-level anti-"corpo" vibe). Regarding this angle, it was merely pointed out that this has been going on since Seventies, and perhaps the oh-so-knowledgeable "gamers" shouldn't hypocritically single out one company for a pitchofork drive. The "overpromising" - lol, it's the NMS all over again. God forbid that a company/dev should try to promote their game and say some things over 7 (seven) years of dev time which might not make it to the final cut. Here's the extreme hypocrisy at work again, because if it was consistent the likes of Rockstar would have been long ago burnt at the same stake. And most of the hyping is obviously being done by people themselves.

 

A class action-lawsuit, oh my, that's so impressive, and as we all know, always means serious business! Please. A  true investor would probably be more reasonable and consider the fact that he game has sold 13 mil copies, on top of the 8 from preorders, despite the noise and Sony's grandstanding gesture.

 

Really, there's nothing sadder than an internet massive self combusting in a righteous flame. 99 times out of 100 it's an ego-stroking, hypocritical exercise. I suppose such random venting makes you feel better and is some sort of defense mechanism to plaster over the fact that we're all being shafted by big corporations all the time, on much bigger scale, and for real reasons. No better example than the same gamers overwhelmingly turning on Epic Store for a bunch of paper-thin reasons, because otherwise they'd have to admit that they, and the devs, have always been exploited by their beloved Steam. Truly pathetic.

 

I don't care about CDPR in the slightest, said as much in the OP, but I do care about gaming in general. And I would like to see it progress a little bit further than the gameplay rut we've been stuck in for the last 15 years. C2077 is far from perfect, for sure, but at least it tries to push the envelope a little bit. And these witchhunts (same for Watch dogs, NMS, Bethsoft, etc) only hold us back because the message is clear: try something new and you stand a grand chance to be torched for a slighttest misshap.

 

 

On 12/25/2020 at 7:49 PM, Mikebloke said:

I've spent countless hours on fan wikis to find object references so I can fix quests to finish them, so yeah, I'm pooping on Skyrim (and fallout 3, I'll stick New Vegas in there too even though it was Obsidian technically). 

 

I get the feeling CDPR will do more to fix their bugs than Bethesda does, though I dunno about the last gen console system (don't have one yet!) 

I've spent hundreds of hours in these worlds since Oblivion and never had a single major problem. Sure, I usually play long time after the last patches are out, but even when I played fresh Oblivion release it was nowhere near that trainwreck people love to portray it as. Secondly, there's no other game on the market which is comparable to TES/FO complexity in regard to creating dynamic, truly open worlds, they are completely different in this regard to all the Witchers and Co. So it's normal there will always be some glitches.

 

And there really is a difference between saying that "there are some bugs" and "the game is a complete mess" (nevermind the "never fix it past 15hrs" jibe because who buys a TES game for instant gratification?). It's precisely the same mechanism we are watching now in play with C2077. On the internet only the ones who shout the loudest get the likes/retweets/subs, so everything has to black or white, and cranked up to 111.

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On 12/25/2020 at 9:06 AM, BDW said:

Cyberpunk 2020 fan and CDPR stock holder here.

 

I find it very ironic that Cyberpunk 2077 fans are defending CDPR to the teeth despite the entire franchise being about the dangers of unethical corporations. CDPR deliberately hid the poor performance of the PS4 and XBONE versions via review embargos and lack of screenshots and videos before release. No amount of forum shilling and desperate coping is going to take back the fact that their stock has lost almost half of it's value since the start of the month and investors have started a class action lawsuit over the lies and misrepresentation

 

Gamers aren't mad about the buggy performance as much as they are mad about the fact that CDPR overpromised and wayyyy underdelivered. And then tried to keep that fact a secret until after people forked their cash over.

If they were trying to hide the problems with the last gen versions, then how does this article acknowledging the issue exist from before the game was released?

 

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2020-10-29-cd-projekt-attributes-new-cyberpunk-delay-to-working-with-current-gen-consoles

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On 12/23/2020 at 2:56 PM, Reaperman said:

Gamers Angry They Can't Refund 'Cyberpunk 2077' And Still Keep The Game

This doesn't surprise me in the least.   It's similar to the justification the typically PC pirate gives as to why they are entitled to the game for free,   because somehow the company wronged them, therefore they deserve to pirate it.

 

On 12/23/2020 at 2:56 PM, Reaperman said:

It's a perfect example of what's gone wrong with media.  

The actual story isn't noteworthy enough to be news from the start, and is stretched even thinner when "at least one Cyberpunk 2077 player"

Agreed- a random nobody's crazy rantings on Twitter posts should not be newsworthy.   It gives people a distorted idea of what the average person thinks

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This whole affair is a distortion of what the average person thinks. How many people have you seen complaining who mention that they've even played the game? I'm sure there is a large amount of people amplifying the anger online who haven't even bothered to try it. Probably just discouraged from buying/playing from the negative buzz, and feeling dismayed about it.

 

It was all probably started by some kids disappointed that the game didn't live up to the impossible hype. The internet is very good at finding drama where there isn't any.

Edited by DJ Clae
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On 12/17/2020 at 12:39 PM, youxia said:

It's just how it is these days, thanks to the internet. People, like our man IntelliMission here, will start shouting about just anything which is slightly "controversial" and can yield a like or retweet. Not only in gaming, but in all other walks of life too. And once such hysteria/hate snowball is in motion there is no stopping it and it spreads like a virus, triggering confirmation biases in other people.

 

The instances of this in gaming depress me, because they usually target games/devs which try to do something new and outside of standard template. As a lifelong Bethesda fan I'm well used to this kind of noise (thankfully, they don't care and just do their thing), but it was the same with No Man's Sky, for example, whose devs  luckily also did not call it quits, and carried on. But others are watching, and I'm quite sure that these hate campaigns do affect negatively the willingness for risk taking in the industry.

 

It's not only lame but hypocritical. Anybody with passing interest and some perspective is well aware about how difficult it is to develop a huge and complex modern game, so bitching about some inevitable bugs, especially in a new IP, is really childish. But funnily enough, this seems to be a selective process. There were no such campaigns for PC gaming darlings such as The Outer Worlds, Control, or Kingdom Come: Deliverance. I'm playing them now, long after the release dates, and they still have bugs - never mind what was going on at launch.

 

This is not to say there shouldn't be any criticism, of course, but what goes on now with C2077 (The Guardian just gave it 6/10) is far from a reasonable reaction. I've been playing it some more and, for sure, there are gameplay/design flaws. But again, it's completely normal in a new IP. It's funny how nobody seems to remember what the likes of  Assassin's Creed, The Witcher, or even GTA looked and played like in their first iterations, and how long did it take them to mature.

 

In C2077 I'm a bit disappointed in the main mission design - they seem a bit too story driven and thus rigid and linear. But, it's still early on, so hopefully it will improve. I also hope I will be allowed to attempt them alone (wink wink spoiler alert ) from now on - I'm just fresh in the Act 2. Driving is functional, if a bit pointless, but that's more to do with city street design. Police/crime could be much more developed, the city more reactive/random, mission approach more freeform. Keanu character is (predictably) a bit irritating, though that's not gameplay related. But overall, all these things are on par for a first release in (hopefully) new series.

 

And aside from these complaints, this game is in no way a 'broken, janky mess" - a favourite phrase of soc-med whiners. I would still give it at least 91/100. Wandering around the city and taking on random gang situations is great fun. The gfx is beyond belief, and I make no apologies for playing on a beefy PC. Some of the main mission moments and braindance sessions are also electrifyingly next gen. And it can only get better with updates. So, up yours, boo-people ;)

 

 

I had so many issues with Fallout III locking my PS3 console, I ended up buying it again on the 360.

 

There it did what Fallout N. V did, it lost essential NPC's, meaning you couldn't complete quests and had to reload earlier saves. 

 

 

Very frustrating,but i stuck with the series. 

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On 12/26/2020 at 4:19 AM, youxia said:

 

*snip*

I just want you to know no matter how hard you project on the internet to total strangers, Marcin Iwiński and Michał Kiciński are not going to be friends with you. At the end of the day all they care about is your money. I know nothing I say will convince you otherwise, but companies like CDPR dont care about you at all. Feel free to send another 6 paragraph essay my way but I'm not going to read it :)

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On 12/28/2020 at 6:10 AM, BDW said:

I just want you to know no matter how hard you project on the internet to total strangers, Marcin Iwiński and Michał Kiciński are not going to be friends with you. At the end of the day all they care about is your money. I know nothing I say will convince you otherwise, but companies like CDPR dont care about you at all. Feel free to send another 6 paragraph essay my way but I'm not going to read it :)

Lol, reading 6 paragraphs seems like a hard task, I know. Walls of text are so last century. And to reply properly you'd probably have to try putting some coherent arguments together, and ain't nobody got time for that.

 

Its' so much easier to join a Twitter mob, where all you have to read is 140 characters, look at some funny memes, and circlejerk away in a pleasant thought bubble. Best stick to that medium, buddy, seems to suit you better :)

 

Trying to accuse somebody who repeatedly stated that is not a fan of CDRP of brownosing and shilling for them is pretty much how things go on the web these days. You don't need to make sense at all and can just say anything, no matter how lazy or untrue it is - but as long as it aligns with what your peers are saying, it will be liked, subbed to, or retweeted. Now, this is just a non-important spat about a silly game, but unfortunately this mechanism applies to every other modern web "conversation".

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On 12/25/2020 at 10:06 AM, BDW said:

Cyberpunk 2020 fan and CDPR stock holder here.

 

I find it very ironic that Cyberpunk 2077 fans are defending CDPR to the teeth despite the entire franchise being about the dangers of unethical corporations.

Ah, yes, we should always listen to stockholders about the dangers of corporatism. 🤔

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Maybe I'm missing something, but Alt Cunningham's character isn't handled especially well for those finding out about her for the first time.  She seems pretty central to the universe, but in her lengthy intro she was mostly shown as just being another, but far meaner, silverhand groupie. They mention pretty much everything important in the voodoo boys quest, but the emphasis on her story is all wrong since it's being told mostly from silverhand's perspective, and he's a self-absorbed prick.

 

Cunningham's actual abilities/impact didn't fully hit home until I started reading about Bartmoss externally (who I haven't encountered in-game yet), and many sources of information on him mentions her.  'oh they keep talking about that mean lady from the internet who yells at johnny' --this probably shouldn't be my main takeaway on Cunningham. Why he ever even went to rescue her is beyond me.

Edited by Reaperman

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My son and his friends (late teens group of fellas) pretty much all find this review to be spot on:

 

 

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I'm still playing this thing daily, but for shorter bursts.  According to spoilers I'm within a few major missions of the end, and I've been sitting on at least 4 major, multi-mission story sidequests I should probably finish before then.  Even the sidequests are way more story-heavy than I really want to go right now, so I've dropped down to doing very minor quests--police missions, cyber-psychos, and the like.  I maxed out my street cred at lvl 50 about 3 days ago, but am only around level 30 for my character. 

 

At some point here I'm going to have to make major choices about what attributes I'm going to level all the way to 20, because not everything can max out (at least not currently).

 

One thing I'm noticing is the story-telling on very minor missions, or even just wilderness scenes, is fairly reminiscent of, fallout 3+, where sometimes they'll just drop some 3d assets in the desert, or down an alley, and they'll tell a little story that players can put together with just those art objects, and sometimes an archived conversation.  It's pretty nice. A lot of the legendary items tend to be found in those scenes--on a random body next to a burning car, etc.  Nice little touches.

Edited by Reaperman
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Put together a video of some out of bounds action. Ever wondered what the Desert city was like or inside the sports stadium?

 

 

 

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I noticed there was an article about the steam number of players dropping by 80%. I didn't give the article the time of day to click, but surely this is just as much related to it being a single player game that people already finished? My brother in law finished the game in 25 hours and I don't think he's gone back to it. Meanwhile I'm about 35 hours in and I've not even started a number of main quest missions yet at the main fork. Once I am finished with it, I can't imagine walking around in it again until the first dlc comes out, by which point I might restart with a new origin and character. I don't think this is a mark of how well its received. Surely we can't expect it to keep numbers of other games such as gta with Multiplayer features? 

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55 minutes ago, Mikebloke said:

I noticed there was an article about the steam number of players dropping by 80%. I didn't give the article the time of day to click, but surely this is just as much related to it being a single player game that people already finished? My brother in law finished the game in 25 hours and I don't think he's gone back to it. Meanwhile I'm about 35 hours in and I've not even started a number of main quest missions yet at the main fork. Once I am finished with it, I can't imagine walking around in it again until the first dlc comes out, by which point I might restart with a new origin and character. I don't think this is a mark of how well its received. Surely we can't expect it to keep numbers of other games such as gta with Multiplayer features? 

It is normal to see a large drop off for any game after it's been out for a week or two.   Think about it-  everybody and their brother is playing on day one and the first few days.   But then it goes into people's game rotation, and people are spending less time in it.

 

But online haters always bring up the "Steam drop-off" without context as 'proof' the game failed.

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It looks like the multiplayer was cancelled. Great decision by CD Projekt, they're working really hard to avoid potential future problems. This game will be remembered as a massive success despite of a couple of minor problems.

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