Karateka: A8 vs. Atari ST

[pixelmischief]

Preface

In the ongoing thread covering the development of Prince of Persia for the A8, I happened to mention that I had never played it, but that I loved Karateka.  Another forum denizen recommended the Atari ST version to me.  Needless to say, my passion for the game resulted in a post that would have distracted from the conversation there.  So, I have moved it here and am interested to know how others feel about it.

 

Disclaimer

Before I get up on my high horse and judge people who did something that I have failed at repeatedly, over several decades, allow me this disclaimer.  Making a good video game is an extremely difficult thing to do, even today.  Creating an effective cinematic experience is even harder.  Doing both, at the same time, using 80's era hardware, software, and methods, was damned-near impossible.  What follows is a critical analysis of the differences between Karateka on 8-bit systems and the Atari ST port; as well as support for my assertion that the 8-bit versions are the superior implementation, by far.  That said, if I am going to ask you to entertain the distinctions I draw between the powers of the gods, I had better acknowledge my own relative impotence.

 

Critique

When I tried the Atari ST version of Karateka, I was sorely disappointed.  There are three universal truths at play here.  The first is that "disappointment is a function of expectation".  The second is that "the book is always better than the movie".  And the third, "Sometimes, less is more."

 

Karateka on the Atari ST plays very differently than the A8 version.  The control latency of the earlier game creates a timing challenge that is essential to the gameplay loop.  Closing the distance and choosing the right attack are about anticipating the opponent's moves.  I wonder if Mechner recognized this as a happy accident or the compromise he was forced to make.  Either way, since this mechanic is inexorably bound to the limitations of the 8-bit platform, it is missing on the Atari ST.  Without it, the game is transformed into an entirely different experience.  When I first tried Karateka on the ST, I did so with the expectation that I was going to play an improved version of a beloved game.  Instead, I got a fundamentally different game with the same name.

 

If you've ever seen a documentary that covers the making of Karateka, you know that Mechner was fairly obsessed with the challenge of reproducing authentic human movement in a video game.  In fact, after releasing Prince of Persia, Mechner took a break from game development to go to film school.  Clearly, a life-long appreciation for cinematic presentation was a major motivation for his work on Karateka.  The rotoscoped animations in the A8 version of Karateka are such a striking reproduction of natural motion that the imagination is inspired to see the low-resolution, 3-color sprites as real people, doing real combat.  This raises the stakes of the game dramatically; increasing the excitement of playing, and satisfaction of winning, by an order of magnitude.  The colorful, high-resolution sprites of the Atari ST version are a cartoon by comparison and don't evoke the same emotional response.

 

Andromeda focused on doing all of the things in the ST version that couldn't have been done on the 8-bit platform.  They raised the color count, used digitized voice samples, and added additional voices to the music.  A particular example is the introduction scroll.  They added a parchment paper background, persistent wind sound, and more complicated music.  These things may increase the technical features of the presentation, but they simultaneously diminish the dramatic effect of the scene; as well as it's place among the scenes that form the entire introductory sequence.  In the immortal words of Dr. Ian Malcom from Jurassic Park, "They were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, that they didn't stop to think if the should."

 

I play though Karateka several time each year and love every minute of it.  Sure, some of that is nostalgia.  I propose, however, that most of my enjoyment is based on the enduring substance of the game.  And, that substance having been changed in the Atari ST port, I simply didn't get what I expect Karateka to be.  In addition, the limited graphical and audio fidelity of the original make room for the imagination to build the story better than the more explicit presentation ever could.  In the end, I am certain that Andromeda meant to honor Mechner's game, but ultimately failed to understand what it is the man had set out to do.  Despite being more impressive software, or perhaps because of it, Karateka on the Atari ST fails to be as good a game.

Edited December 12, 2020 by pixelmischief

[pixelmischief]

@Albert If this is more appropriate for the Atari ST forum, please feel free to move.

[Lynxpro]

And for some real fun, edit the title of the post to include the 7800 so that version can also be addressed. 

[Tillek]

I would be interested in hearing thoughts on the 7800 version..... I own it, but never played it.

 

Can't say I played the ST version either.  Though I have played the A8 and Apple ][ versions.  Atari all the way!

[Dmitry]

I think your point is well made.

 

Karateka was one of the few computer games I purchased.  Oh I was a fan of games, but mostly played games on the family's 2600. For my Atari (400, later 800xl, later 130xe), it was mostly about programming and later as a BBS system.

 

But, I did want to demo the machine to friends, and had 3 or 4 games, one of them was Karateka.  I was very pleased with the purchase, it was an 8-bit master piece.

 

I never heard of the ST version until your post.  I took a look at it on youtube.  The person playing in the video was doing so defensively, throwing a lot of high kicks, rapid fire.  It had the impact of being somewhat comical, who in real life would rapid fire, repetitively throw kicks into the air that don't land, plus the timing was so fast, it wasn't believable. 

 

You can fail to land a kick or punch in the 8-bit version too, but it never caused a suspension of disbelief.  The timing of the game created more tension.   The game was very cinematic, and felt ominous and foreboding.  I get your point entirely, the impression of the ST version was that it certainly looks like an upgraded graphics version of Karateka, but something got lost.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Dmitry

[Rybags]

Fairly sure I've not played it.

 

What's with the guy's face?  It's like the graphics guy went "Oh shit, I have to fit the head within this certain number of pixels, so I'll have to flatten the front of his profile!

[xxl]

An interesting model of the skeleton was demonstrated in the ST version - from the bouncing head of the figure, I conclude that a spring was modeled instead of a spine?

[Mclaneinc]

10 hours ago, pixelmischief said:

@Albert If this is more appropriate for the Atari ST forum, please feel free to move.

I personally think its fine here, its a comparison between the two and a well written one at that, found myself nodding to every point.

 

The Jurassic Park quote is spot on...

[rensoup]

It's also one of my favourites on the A8 so I gave it a quick try and sure enough they really did a crap job with the ST version.

I think the body is the same for both the hero and the enemy in the original and JM just added a helmet for the enemy, for space saving, but the way they redesigned it on the ST, it looks like you're fighting your twin ?

 

I don't think extra colors or resolution are bad, they just didn't know what they were doing... I was going to illustrate my point  with the International Karate ST port, which has mindblowing graphics...

 

...Then I found out it was done by Andromeda software too ?

 

They took a radically different direction but it worked nicely I think (I recall the game was too sluggish though)

 

 

 

The ST graphics were done by someone named "Sultan"... does anybody know if he was credited for other game graphics ?

 

[Mclaneinc]

Pass, I remember them from the C64 times, their big game was Scarabaeus if its the same Hungarian team...

 

Here's a list of titles Andromeda were involved in on the ST

 

http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari-st-andromeda-software_developer_321_S_G.html

Edited December 13, 2020 by Mclaneinc

[pixelmischief]

4 hours ago, rensoup said:

They took a radically different direction but it worked nicely I think

The graphics and animation on IK+ are nice, although all the fighters do look like Mexican midgets.  I would have said "little people", but I needed the alliteration to make the dig work. ?

[Tillek]

1 hour ago, pixelmischief said:

The graphics and animation on IK+ are nice, although all the fighters do look like Mexican midgets.  I would have said "little people", but I needed the alliteration to make the dig work. ?

Not to mention Master (or is it Colonel) Sanders?

[pixelmischief]

10 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

I personally think its fine here, its a comparison between the two and a well written one at that, found myself nodding to every point.

Thanks, pop.  You're kind of the patriarch around here, so it always feels good to get a pat on the head from you. ?

[Tillek]

5 hours ago, pixelmischief said:

Thanks, pop.  You're kind of the patriarch around here, so it always feels good to get a pat on the head from you. ?

Actually I was kind of curious if .... you posed it on both forums... would you get different points of view?   Since maybe there is a different.... well, I'll use the word "bias" but I don't think that really fits... just can't come up with another word off the top of my head.

 

But it might be interesting to see if there is a different view from those who are A8 over all (as we have seen from the BBS world point of view) compares to those who "embrace" the ST line (even though some of those overlap).

[tjlazer]

I think the ST version is descent.  I think the 800 version was amazing and at the time groundbreaking.  Prince of Persia as well.  (nice to see an 800 port being made!)  But I think the issue on the ST version is that the game did not have the wow factor we got on the 800 version.  Would of been hard to recreate that on the ST version IMHO.   The game btw was ported for the Amiga for anyone that wants to try it that might not have a Atari ST.

[zzip]

On 12/12/2020 at 11:09 PM, Tillek said:

I would be interested in hearing thoughts on the 7800 version..... I own it, but never played it.

 

Can't say I played the ST version either.  Though I have played the A8 and Apple ][ versions.  Atari all the way!

I thought the 7800 version was poor compared to the atar8 version.  More colorful of course, but it doesn't look great and plays wrong.

[pixelmischief]

5 hours ago, zzip said:

...and plays wrong.

This seems to be the challenge with porting Karateka.  The right port would start by recreating the exact same game and then making small, incremental changes, testing the gameplay after each change.  It's definitely a "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" situation.