"Atari on a Chip" project.

[Flamore]

Greetings, i have come to announce an project that could solve the overall lack and difficulty of finding replacement parts problem. Possible uses would be: New replacement motherboards, improved compatibility with games as cartridges would be used (A0-11&D0-D7 pins) and more uses that i couldn't think of right now.

We are interested in possible contributors.

Now's time for Q/A!

 

Q: What will it be implemented on?

A: On a FPGA first, and at the end possibly an ASIC.

 

Q: Even though you listed your use cases, i do not understand the reasoning behind it. Could you explain why?

A: As time progresses we lose the console units and replacement parts, in which case we are forced to stick with the emulators that aren't very compatible with specific programs and demos.

 

Q: How much progress has been made?

A: For now the project is at the overall idea and design stage.

 

Q: How can I help?

A: We mostly seek VHDL developers, that would be capable of writing the core or even porting it from other projects.

 

Q: What convinced you to start this project?

A: The amount of 6-4 switch Atari 2600's in Poland is very low, therefore I cannot design any hardware for it unless I risk using the 2600 JR.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+5-11under]

I guess it's time for you to learn VHDL, if you don't already know it.

[Flamore]

5 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

I guess it's time for you to learn VHDL, if you don't already know it.

It's not like I have months spare to work on it, and i do know VHDL. 

[+5-11under]

We'll... I guess you'll either need to do the work yourself, or you'll need to find someone else to do the work for you, in their spare months... .

 

[Flamore]

Community projects are based on the ideology of "If you got time, you might or might not decide to make a small contribution" instead of "make the thing for me and I'll slack off"

[Cebus Capucinis]

7 hours ago, Flamore said:

Community projects are based on the ideology of "If you got time, you might or might not decide to make a small contribution" instead of "make the thing for me and I'll slack off"

Unfortunately, there's quite a long history on AtariAge of the latter mentality rather than the former, so users are very skeptical of "idea peddlers."

 

I have no skills to help with design, sadly, but I'd like to see something like this come to fruition!

[Keatah]

On 12/19/2020 at 3:14 PM, Flamore said:

Greetings, i have come to announce an project that could solve the overall lack and difficulty of finding replacement parts problem. Possible uses would be: New replacement motherboards, improved compatibility with games as cartridges would be used (A0-11&D0-D7 pins) and more uses that i couldn't think of right now.

We are interested in possible contributors.

Now's time for Q/A!

 

Q: What will it be implemented on?

A: On a FPGA first, and at the end possibly an ASIC.

Not clear on if you want an "Atari on a Chip" as the thread title says, or if you're looking to do individual replacement parts like GTIA/Sally/ANTIC/POKEY and others.

 

On 12/19/2020 at 3:14 PM, Flamore said:

Q: Even though you listed your use cases, i do not understand the reasoning behind it. Could you explain why?

A: As time progresses we lose the console units and replacement parts, in which case we are forced to stick with the emulators that aren't very compatible with specific programs and demos.

I understand the reasoning, sure. But I'll be happy to argue that emulators are potentially more compatible and versatile than any one given take (or two) of Atari hardware. I just think of NTSC vs. PAL here, and find that emulators switch back and forth between the standards nicely. Instantly. No need for multiple consoles or monitors. I also appreciate that emulators offer many configurations like different firmware, model numbers, memory & processor configurations. And more. This is even more true for the Amiga ecosphere.

 

It's still pretty early in the game for FPGA recreations of the Atari 400/800 & other 8-bit models. We do have MiSTer for starters. It's a respectable effort. And then there's the 576 and 1088 homebrew projects. So

 

I say the replacement parts idea is the way to go. This applies to all classic computers. New chips need to be remade, exactly-as, precisely-as, as the original ones they are replacing. No elimination of features. No additional features. Just drop-in replacements.

 

POKEY is probably first one that needs addressing. Last I heard is the new Pokey ONE replacements are, of course, not exact. Just close enough. They work in arcade cabs, but not the home computers. Maybe that's changed..?

 

 

[potatohead]

IMHO, the easiest way to get contributors is to post something they can get interested in, potentially do something with, and contribute to.

 

I second the idea of replacements!

 

There is the idea of history in play.  There is a need to present the actual machines doing their thing in the way it was done.  Displays, peripherals, and all of that.  Replacements will become the "must have" in the future, and having those means being able to keep the machines and related stuff active and useful.  Historians, enthusiasts, basically people like us, will want to keep our stuff working too.  Big bang for the buck right there.  People may not care about an 800XL as much as they do, say an Alto, but they do care some, and museums and others like us will have machines running, if we all can.  Like I said, big bang for the buck. 

 

Right now, the CRT trend is interesting too.  People coming of age today flat out don't know what we lost when we quit producing CRT displays.  Now there is a whole cottage industry out there fixing things, doing adjustments, making adapters, and in general keeping CRT displays relevant to people seeking to either use them or just understand what they do better.

 

This same kind of thing has been going on with older computers too.  It's a good thing.  We often don't seem to really get everything out of a tech, until later in the cycle.  And history always has lessons for us we aren't always ready to receive in the now.  That's also a good thing.  And we preserve old media, artifacts of all kinds and it's often surprising what we get out of all that with a newer technology eye to see with, and some perspective to consider it all with. 

 

As soon as someone talks about putting the whole thing on a chip, the question becomes, "What do I get that I don't get via emulation?"  The next question is, "Do I care?"

 

Emulation continues to improve.  The more it does, the less often we will see the answer to, "Do I care?" favor a system on chip.  It's fairly easy to make interface projects that connect to systems running emulation too.  Using displays, peripherals and such becomes possible that way as much as it does via a system on a chip.

 

I think it's going to be cheaper overall too, unless the system on chip can be boiled down to an inexpensive platform.  Emulators are already there.  

 

Anyway, here's my last thought:

 

If the desire is high fidelity, such that one really doesn't see any material difference across a wide variety of use cases, making the replacements are steps toward that goal, and they are useful along the way to that goal too!

 

In any case, don't let me get in the way!  If it's fun, and people want to do it, the more the merrier!  It all keeps the classic era alive and that's always a good thing in my book.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SamhainTM]

I'm in the process of designing a replacement board system for the 2600 (and possibly other systems) based on a CPU module/sled carrier board method. The CPU board would house the RIOT/TIA/MPU along with some basic support circuitry. The carrier board would then be designed to hold power & input/output based on the desired form factor (4sw, 6sw, jr, custom). If your FPGA/ASIC design can be configured to fit into a small format plug-in board, it may be a good fit for collaboration. My goal is to initial offer the capability to use modern components with original chips. I'm also trying to include both NTSC and PAL compatibility, on separate boards though (not going to try and integrate both together).

 

The thread that has the initial talking points is here: Does anyone makes new replacement pcb for 2600? - Page 2 - Atari 2600 - AtariAge Forums

 

I have a real job and I'm currently also working on home renovations, so my progress has been slow at this point. Still in the initial goals and design phase, but should have a Github repo up soon though.