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Geneve OS development discussion

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On 4/9/2021 at 12:40 AM, InsaneMultitasker said:

After some RS232 tracing and examining the log in Excel, I noticed a pattern of 1000 iterations.  That led me to code I introduced and subsequently forgot - circa 2009?

Hi Tim,

 When you get time, could you tell us about the setup you used to debug this problem, I know Jim Lowmeyer had a 9640 debugger that worked with the rs232 port, and I think there might have been some rudimentary code in the boot EPROM that would use the rs232.

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17 minutes ago, dhe said:

Hi Tim,

 When you get time, could you tell us about the setup you used to debug this problem, I know Jim Lowmeyer had a 9640 debugger that worked with the rs232 port, and I think there might have been some rudimentary code in the boot EPROM that would use the rs232.

It's much simpler than that. I'm not really doing debugging in the traditional sense, with breakpoints and stepping and interaction. 

 

When I was working on the horizon ramdisk ROS (ram operating system) code I wanted/needed a way to see what was happening while the DSR was operating.  Since the RS232 cards can be accessed by CRU without turning the card on (i.e., making its rom/ram visible at the >4000-5fff space) I wrote a few routines that output to the rs232, which I added into the ROS dsr code.  This way I could 'see' what was happening for specific memory/variables. 

 

I used the same concept for the Geneve debug code.   My debugging process here consists of using the RS232 display routines to show what is happening from a high level real-time trace.  In the case of the SCSI debug, I added a few calls to display the routine and unit number then compared what I expected to what was output.  Both the 1000 iteration timeout and the unit number problem were fairly quickly identified with the real-time output, the former being a surprise as I had completely forgotten about the SCSI timeout code I was testing so long ago.

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7 hours ago, Schmitzi said:

 

haaa, I was just typing this here when the notification about your post came in:   :) 😃

but here it is:

 

(@Beery) Do you think there is a possibility to "patch" the keyboard ?

We had this littly tool in early MS-DOS, to swap the "," with the "." on the number-block on the right side of the keyboard, i.e. for faster input of bills. And later software just accepted the "," as "." as a workaround.

 

 

 

This is an interesting idea. At the key level, this would require updating not only the OS but GPL and EXEC, to be consistent, and in theory would be very simple to implement.  In theory.

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1 hour ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

This is an interesting idea. At the key level, this would require updating not only the OS but GPL and EXEC, to be consistent, and in theory would be very simple to implement.  In theory.

I thought about this.  If the right references/pointers are in place in the code, it may just need to be redefining the order of the key tables in the KBD XOP to "switch" keys around in what is reported.  I think I do see problems when someone has replaces some of the text ASCII characters, saves a file, and the filenames or text aren't the same if the files are exchanged.

 

Beery

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, 9640News said:

I think I do see problems when someone has replaces some of the text ASCII characters, saves a file, and the filenames or text aren't the same if the files are exchanged

So long as the only change being made is to the values that represent the key being depressed, whatever is displayed is what should be saved in the file.  If Schmitzi for example wanted the Z key to represent the period, pressing Z would still result in a period on screen and in the file.

 

While the key tables for MDOS are by no means immutable I am thinking a test would be to identify the two scan key value locations for period and comma (in L6\KEY1S or KEY2S) and swap the key values with a short, external program.  [The values would presumably only change for the unshifted/non-ALT/non-CTRL table]

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22 hours ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

So long as the only change being made is to the values that represent the key being depressed, whatever is displayed is what should be saved in the file.  If Schmitzi for example wanted the Z key to represent the period, pressing Z would still result in a period on screen and in the file.

 

While the key tables for MDOS are by no means immutable I am thinking a test would be to identify the two scan key value locations for period and comma (in L6\KEY1S or KEY2S) and swap the key values with a short, external program.  [The values would presumably only change for the unshifted/non-ALT/non-CTRL table]

 

Zes, and I would swap "Y" and "Z" for example, because I have a german kezboard :grin:

 

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Request #6: for the command "CD \"  an non-space-alias "CD\"  (like the "CD.."-request)

 

Request #7: new commands "DIR .." and "DIR.." which shows all subdirs of the actual folder

                   (on the basis of request #2 DIR-error that always shows subdirs)

 

Request #8: a new environment variable DIRCMD - setable like PATH, based on MS-DOS,

                   that is automatically attached to ANY DIR-command (i.e. DIRCMD= /P for DIR /P)

 

already entered at 9960news.com :)

thank you

 

PS is CAPS ON already available in any kind (I asked before), or should I do another request ?

 

 

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9 minutes ago, mizapf said:

"DIR .." shows the parent directory, also in MS-DOS, doesn't it?

 

oh yes, I mean "DIR ."  😄

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But DIR . is the same as DIR without arguments; at least this is how DOSBox behaves. Single . is the current directory (DOS, Win, Unix).

 

What you think of seems to be DIR /A:D (show only subdirectories in this directory)

 

 

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Yes DIR .  does not do what I wanted :( I am confusing things somehow

DIR *. brings subdirectories, BUT files without extensions too.

As MDOS has no DOT in the filename, and DOT is the seperator, it could work and be easy.

/A:D is correct, but hard to enter :) But this is not up to me

But if this is it, then a TREE /A:D would be cool too. only showing the structure, no files

 

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I thought we covered the directory-only option, and related options:  DIR `R and TREE `R display directories.   

Does CASE on/off work as a substitute for CAPS? 

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28 minutes ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

I thought we covered the directory-only option, and related options:  DIR `R and TREE `R display directories.   

Does CASE on/off work as a substitute for CAPS? 

hmm still searching this key ´ (turned around) on my keyboard

 

The CASE, does not work on command line. Maybe on AUTOEXEC ? Have to check when back at the machine tomorrow

Does CASE mean upper or lower ON/OFF ? ok, I can try tomorrow :)

 

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34 minutes ago, Schmitzi said:

hmm still searching this key ´ (turned around) on my keyboard

 

The CASE, does not work on command line. Maybe on AUTOEXEC ? Have to check when back at the machine tomorrow

Does CASE mean upper or lower ON/OFF ? ok, I can try tomorrow :)

 

Examples from two styles of the keyboard, maybe this will help locate?   

CASE command has been in MDOS/Geneve OS for a long time.  It allows you to tell the OS to treat all lowercase filenames as uppercase filenames.  (The command does not apply to GPL mode).

 

 

image.png.3426e03a3d097cea0a87d4c73a8e1873.png  image.png.a385992e5a32f743a3dbdcfba8a47de6.png

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@SchmitziUse the accent-grave for the backtick if you have a German keyboard. This should be the key between ß and backspace.

 

 

 

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I think it is about time to set up a command list for GeneveOS 7.30. If there is such a list, I'd be happy to put it on Ninerpedia for reference.

 

BTW, I believe we need a name for that white-on-blue environment of GeneveOS we are talking about. Is it the "GeneveOS shell"?

Or better: What about calling that command environment "MDOS", while the whole system is "GeneveOS"?

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I have a document drafted by I guess Lou Phillip for IPC - Inter Process Communication - that seem to me, to be lost in the sands of time.

The other term that came to head was create for JP Charlton - the MASTER DSR - getting that sorted of maybe just letting it die, might be the way to go.

   Paul said have Geneve OS doing all the dsr stuff was just a step until he could get all the cards dsr's updated to run with the the geneve.

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On 4/11/2021 at 9:57 PM, InsaneMultitasker said:

Examples from two styles of the keyboard, maybe this will help locate?   

CASE command has been in MDOS/Geneve OS for a long time.  It allows you to tell the OS to treat all lowercase filenames as uppercase filenames.  (The command does not apply to GPL mode).

 

 

image.png.3426e03a3d097cea0a87d4c73a8e1873.png  image.png.a385992e5a32f743a3dbdcfba8a47de6.png

 

On 4/11/2021 at 10:29 PM, mizapf said:

@SchmitziUse the accent-grave for the backtick if you have a German keyboard. This should be the key between ß and backspace.

 

 

 

 

  

On 4/11/2021 at 9:57 PM, InsaneMultitasker said:

Examples from two styles of the keyboard, maybe this will help locate?   

CASE command has been in MDOS/Geneve OS for a long time.  It allows you to tell the OS to treat all lowercase filenames as uppercase filenames.  (The command does not apply to GPL mode).

 

 

image.png.3426e03a3d097cea0a87d4c73a8e1873.png  image.png.a385992e5a32f743a3dbdcfba8a47de6.png

 

On 4/11/2021 at 10:29 PM, mizapf said:

@SchmitziUse the accent-grave for the backtick if you have a German keyboard. This should be the key between ß and backspace.

 

 

 

 

I´ve tested it now and the insane-key on upper left, next to the "1" delivers the > ` < and it works. :grin:

 

The accent-grave key delivers the "oppsite"  > ´ < and does not work.

TREE shows no summary and ends up in "Device Error" 

 

So the "DIR `R" and also "TREE `R" functions very OK, maybe my whole request is not nessecary...

First, because I didn´t know about (yes, the manual :grin: )  and 2nd, maybe I should internally step back

a little bit with my wishes to have MS-DOS everywhere around ? ;)  The only reason for me that remains is, that I am always confusing keys and other things, as I often do small programmings with MS-DOS batchfiles... But this is my problem and I learn. If it is very easy to realize it please do it, otherwise just drop it.

 

One word to the CASE that the CAPS does not work: :)

CASE normally is OFF, and when doing a CASE ON, no CAPITAL letters are used, means CAPS-LOCK is not ON,

but maybe with CASE ON,  MDOS interprets things the CAPITAL way round, I cannot see that, nor from the manual, but am sure that this happens.

But I meant something total different: I wanted to have CAPS-LOCK to be ON at boot, as standard, because I want (to see) capital letters whan I tzpe in commands. This is due to the very much readability an my bad screen 

👓

 

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1 minute ago, Schmitzi said:

The accent-grave key delivers the "oppsite"  > ´ < and does not work.

That's accent aigu. You need to hold Shift for the grave. At least I have to do that on my German keyboard.

 

But are we talking about a German keyboard of the real Geneve or of your PC running the Geneve emulation? In the emulation, it is of course the key left of the "1" key (where I have caret/degree).

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2 minutes ago, mizapf said:

That's accent aigu. You need to hold Shift for the grave. At least I have to do that on my German keyboard.

 

But are we talking about a German keyboard of the real Geneve or of your PC running the Geneve emulation? In the emulation, it is of course the key left of the "1" key (where I have caret/degree).

 

I have tested ALL keys in ALL combinations with SHIFT on my german keyboard, only the one next to the "1" works

There is printed ^ and ° on this key. (The > ´ < is brought by the Ä and does error as described before)

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mizapf said:

That's accent aigu. You need to hold Shift for the grave. At least I have to do that on my German keyboard.

 

But are we talking about a German keyboard of the real Geneve or of your PC running the Geneve emulation? In the emulation, it is of course the key left of the "1" key (where I have caret/degree).

 

PS: sorry as I just saw that: I only have real iron Geneve, keyboard is german XT keyboard.

 

 

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2 hours ago, mizapf said:

That's accent aigu. You need to hold Shift for the grave. At least I have to do that on my German keyboard.

 

But are we talking about a German keyboard of the real Geneve or of your PC running the Geneve emulation? In the emulation, it is of course the key left of the "1" key (where I have caret/degree).

 

Here it is, with greetings from Berlin :)

 

 

IMG_5628.thumb.JPG.f7304733fc3ca267da0ff191d1655b48.JPG

 

 

IMG_5629.thumb.JPG.0c6327b1b818161fde3dfb4033090050.JPG

 

 

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OK, on your keyboard it would have been the key right from "ß ? \". But as you run it on the Geneve directly, and we don't have a keymap, you are correct to press the "^ °".

 

Hmm, keymap. Wouldn't it be good to ...

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Hi,

 

maybe just a small thing that I saw:

 

Imagine you have a given install (files) in E:\GDM2K\

and your  PATH  is  E:\MDOS\;E:\BATCH\;E:\GDM2K\;

 

and now you enter the command to start GDM2K with an explicit path to a subdir that does NOT exist

(or within an existing path to a subdir but where the wanted targetfile does NOT exist), like:

E:\> E:\WRONGDIR\GDM2K

 

Against my expections, the target IS found and the (newer!) prog is started. Via the MDOS´ PATH, of course.

But shouldn´t pointing to an empty or not existing folder OR a not existing file end up in an error message,

rather than using the systems MDOS´ PATH then  ? (And this without any hint)

 

What happened to me that I recognized this, what was the problem ?

My actual GDM2K-v3.2 is regulary inside the range of my PATH (as shown above), as I often use it.

But because of some issues, for testing purposes I copied the older GDM2K V3.0 to E:\GDM2K-OLD\

 

Then I wanted to start the old version, just to check something there, and I mistakenly entered

E:> E:\GDM2K-V30\GDM2K

to start it. Of course I expected to see the older version now and checked what I wanted to check,

NOT knowing that I am in the actual version V3.2 :)

 

Is it a bug, or is it a feature ?

 

thx

ACK ACK ACK ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/2/2021 at 6:15 PM, Schmitzi said:

 

Is it possible to make it work that "CD.." (without space) will work like "CD .."  (the standard command, with space)

 

 

On 4/2/2021 at 6:27 PM, InsaneMultitasker said:

The period is used as a delimiter with the TI and Geneve, so people should be typing the expected space ;)   There might be a way to make it work.  Did you add these two items to Beery's site?  Post 151.

 

 

oh yes here, from the manual, it looks like with and without space should be standard ?

(and the 2nd CD is wrong there, it must be CHDIR)

 

grafik.thumb.png.9a5a9067ac9a10b57b6b1b5f039f3bd4.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

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