Elektronite Club

[+cmadruga]

1 hour ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

From the mixed response I read above and on facebook, perhaps it needs to be done on a game by game basis. 

That's what I was thinking too, William.

Anything that provides flexibility and decreases the upfront investment will go in the right direction from a consumer perspective.

Either way, thanks for putting the discussion on the table.

Like you said before, there is pent up demand for digital, and you are obviously just trying to brainstorm a model.

[+JasonlikesINTV]

I have no idea how profitable or feasible this idea would be, but I like the model of:

 

Initial CIB run: $70 includes digital locked ROM

 

Locked ROM sales: $10-20 (concurrent with CIB sales)

 

After a set profit is obtained, begin unlocked ROM sales.  Request that the ROM isn't distributed, but at this point it's just extra profit.  You could still sell locked ROMs at a discount.

[Swami]

If people are wanting ROMs because they don't want to pay for boxed games, or store boxed games, then including a boxed game seems like a backwards step. I know with the CollectorVision club, they offered the game +ROMs for $150 and ROMs vault only for $75. Maybe you could also do a ROMs only version for $125 or so that would appeal to more people.

[+cmadruga]

6 minutes ago, Rev said:

The Atari community is having a discussion on Roms as well. Seems to be a common concern in this digital age as many people transfer away from physical media.  

 

Yep, the questions will not go away.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

1 minute ago, cmadruga said:

Yep, the questions will not go away.

Ok, how about this?

 

I have a finished game called 'Cat Attack!!!'.

 

How many people will commit to buy a DRM free copy for $10 US before I even sell it 'complete in box'?

 

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

...

 

We could do something silly like you send me the money before you get the rom. If we reach the goal, (what is the goal?), then the rom goes out. If not, I'll give you a $10 credit on your next purchase or refund the money. 

[Rev]

For a brand new release, drm free, not yet released CIB, should it be 10, 15, 20?   
 

A portion people are moving over to digital due to LTO flash and no longer want CIB.

[OriginalJohn]

13 minutes ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

Do you happen to know how many sold?

Sorry I do not know.

 

On the subject of piracy,  I'm an avid follower of the Vectrex community.  This community is extremely small compared to inty and coleco, but things can happen when people want to purchase a game, either in physical or digital form, and there is no outlet to do so.  Death Chase/Nox is one of those exclusive and limited release carts that everyone wants and can't get, if ever.  Someone decided to create a bootleg and sell it at a trade show.  If you close this gap then will be no reason to bootleg your games because they are easily and reasonably available.

 

If you recoup your costs on the initial physical release, everything else is just gravy, right?

 

I think about these things very carefully because I'm a programmer who has been lazily attempting to develop a game for the Vectrex based upon Temple of Apshai.   If I ever get there, my plan to make an initial run to cover the costs and to make a profit.  With the profits, I will use them to continue to produce cartridges to whomever wants it at that time, creating a backstock.  If sales slow, then no problem, I'll still have stock for future entusiasts who may wish to purchase it.   If that runs out, I'll start a pre-order.  At the same time though, I'll have a DRM free version that people can purchase to add to their VecMulti or other flash carts.  Everybody wins.  Holding on to games with a death grip helps nobody... after all, the point is to produce games that you enjoy making and entertain the people who want to play them.  In the coleco and vectrex scenes, I have yet to see a whole controversy erupt over someone operating a repository of pirated roms.

 

Anyway, I'm an amateur and may not be aware of the intricacies of the issue.   I like the discussion because it may help me in the future when I get to that point.  

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[OriginalJohn]

9 minutes ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

Ok, how about this?

 

I have a finished game called 'Cat Attack!!!'.

 

How many people will commit to buy a DRM free copy for $10 US before I even sell it 'complete in box'?

 

1.

 

 

We could do something silly like you send me the money before you get the rom. If we reach the goal, (what is the goal?), then the rom goes out. If not, I'll give you a $10 credit on your next purchase or refund the money. 

Count me in

[Games For Your Intellivision]

2 minutes ago, Rev said:

For a brand new release, drm free, not yet released CIB, should it be 10, 15, 20?   
 

A portion people are moving over to digital due to LTO flash and no longer want CIB.

Perhaps the LTO encrypted rom could be 10 and the unprotected 'Ultimate Flashback' rom 20? 

 

Anything that approaches the cost of programming would make things a lot easier for making 'cib' releases. 

[+cmadruga]

8 minutes ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

Ok, how about this?

 

I have a finished game called 'Cat Attack!!!'.

 

How many people will commit to buy a DRM free copy for $10 US before I even sell it 'complete in box'?

 

We could do something silly like you send me the money before you get the rom. If we reach the goal, (what is the goal?), then the rom goes out. If not, I'll give you a $10 credit on your next purchase or refund the money. 

Sure, how about offering a simple demo to help folks decide?

And giving a discount on the CIB if I like the game so much that I want to pony up for it?

[Rev]

So far, I do believe there has not been any physical bootlegs made of Intellivision games. None I know of have been made public. 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Just now, cmadruga said:

Sure, how about offering a simple demo to help folks decide?

And giving a discount on the CIB if I like the game so much that I want to pony up for it?

I'm not paying for a demo to be made. I've poured enough money into the game already. There are videos of the game posted. I can find one. 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

5 minutes ago, OriginalJohn said:

Sorry I do not know.

 

On the subject of piracy,  I'm an avid follower of the Vectrex community.  This community is extremely small compared to inty and coleco, but things can happen when people want to purchase a game, either in physical or digital form, and there is no outlet to do so.  Death Chase/Nox is one of those exclusive and limited release carts that everyone wants and can't get, if ever.  Someone decided to create a bootleg and sell it at a trade show.  If you close this gap then will be no reason to bootleg your games because they are easily and reasonably available.

 

If you recoup your costs on the initial physical release, everything else is just gravy, right?

 

I think about these things very carefully because I'm a programmer who has been lazily attempting to develop a game for the Vectrex based upon Temple of Apshai.   If I ever get there, my plan to make an initial run to cover the costs and to make a profit.  With the profits, I will use them to continue to produce cartridges to whomever wants it at that time, creating a backstock.  If sales slow, then no problem, I'll still have stock for future entusiasts who may wish to purchase it.   If that runs out, I'll start a pre-order.  At the same time though, I'll have a DRM free version that people can purchase to add to their VecMulti or other flash carts.  Everybody wins.  Holding on to games with a death grip helps nobody... after all, the point is to produce games that you enjoy making and entertain the people who want to play them.  In the coleco and vectrex scenes, I have yet to see a whole controversy erupt over someone operating a repository of pirated roms.

 

Anyway, I'm an amateur and may not be aware of the intricacies of the issue.   I like the discussion because it may help me in the future when I get to that point.  

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

I don't want to speak for Nanochess, but from my talking to him, the number of Colecovision ROMS he has sold for some of his games is shockingly low. 

 

No bootleg copies of Intellivision games yet, as Rev says, and I would hope that the higher expense of Intellivision boards will prevent it. 

[+cmadruga]

Just now, Games For Your Intellivision said:

I'm not paying for a demo to be made. I've poured enough money into the game already. There are videos of the game posted. I can find one. 

I was thinking more for future releases.

Make the dev provide it as a condition to have a shot at getting a game physically published. Or negotiate a small commission.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

9 minutes ago, OriginalJohn said:

 

 

 In the coleco and vectrex scenes, I have yet to see a whole controversy erupt over someone operating a repository of pirated roms.

 

 

 

[Rev]

Idea.    Sell a ROM Package for people that want digital.

 

Sell ROM packages before CIB.

 

Rom Package could include: 

DRM free ROM

PDF manual

PDF overlay

price:15 to 25?

 

Then perhaps sell CIB once ROM package has helped it go physical. 
 

————

 

In the Nintendo Eshop, You don’t get a discount if you buy a 60.00 game and then go to Walmart and buy the same 60.00 game.   Roms shouldn’t be expected to be free just because you buy physical.

 

 

 

 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

3 minutes ago, cmadruga said:

I was thinking more for future releases.

Make the dev provide it as a condition to have a shot at getting a game physically published. Or negotiate a small commission.

Since I'm paying to have the games made, this really doesn't apply unless it is a hobbyist programmer. 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

5 minutes ago, Rev said:

Idea.    Sell a ROM Package for people that want digital.

 

Sell ROM packages before CIB.

 

Rom Package could include: 

DRM free ROM

PDF manual

PDF overlay

price:15 to 25?

 

Then perhaps sell CIB once ROM package has helped it go physical. 
 

————

 

In the Nintendo Eshop, You don’t get a discount if you buy a 60.00 game and then go to Walmart and buy the same 60.00 game.   Roms shouldn’t be expected to be free just because you buy physical.

 

 

 

 

Good idea.

[wolfy62]

Have a preorder for the game similar to Dragons and Swords.

And separately have a Rom buyers club or option.

Then either the collectors and the play by emulation folks get the games their way.

I personally already purchased 5 of the Roms offered and own the corresponding games.

Basically,I just want and need a boxed Cat Attack when it becomes available. 

[OriginalJohn]

9 minutes ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

 

Now I can't say I haven't seen it

[+cmadruga]

9 minutes ago, Rev said:

Idea.    Sell a ROM Package for people that want digital.

 

Sell ROM packages before CIB.

 

Rom Package could include: 

DRM free ROM

PDF manual

PDF overlay

price:15 to 25?

 

Then perhaps sell CIB once ROM package has helped it go physical. 
 

————

 

In the Nintendo Eshop, You don’t get a discount if you buy a 60.00 game and then go to Walmart and buy the same 60.00 game.   Roms shouldn’t be expected to be free just because you buy physical.

 

Any idea of how much this would canibalize CIB sales?

That would be a calculation needed by publishers when deciding price point and batch size.

[Intymike]

1 hour ago, OriginalJohn said:

 

Take for example: http://arcadevision.net/

 

This is a quality, professional and fun game to play.   I know this because I paid for the DRM free rom and have been enjoying playing it.  It was a complete 'YES' when I saw it and had no problem paying $10 for the game.

 

When a game offers value and is priced reasonably, people will be happy to pay.  

 

Hm, that reminds me of a game I just recently got for the Intellivision.

I think I will invest $10.

[Rev]

13 minutes ago, cmadruga said:

 

Any idea of how much this would canibalize CIB sales?

That would be a calculation needed by publishers when deciding price point and batch size.

LTO Flash (no offense Joe!) has already diminished some physical sales.  Not sure how much. 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

8 minutes ago, cmadruga said:

 

Any idea of how much this would canibalize CIB sales?

That would be a calculation needed by publishers when deciding price point and batch size.

Well, that is the 64 thousand dollar question, isn't it?

 

Typically, at 20 dollars, I sell about 30 ROMS for LTO Flash!, which frankly is hard to understand considering there were at the time, around 600 copies of LTO Flash! in distribution. Approximately $600 towards the programming certainly helps, but when you've invested $4000 or more in a game, it isn't that much. I also wonder if the unprotected ROMS were freely available, what effect that would have on the 'cib' sales. I've been reluctant to find out, as it could cost me a lot.  

 

When I did the preorder of 'Tale', I included a free LTO Flash! ROM for every pre-order customer as a reward for contributing to the production of the 'cib' version and also as 'proof' that it was a complete game and we weren't trying to use the money to finish an unfinished game. What shocked me about this was the HUGE number of people who had LTO Flash! copies still shrink wrapped and in storage, or on the shelf like some weird game collectible.  Now, there should be around 900 LTO Flash! copies out there, and I hope a lot more people who have taken the time to set up the cartridge and find out how great it is, and therefore be open to purchasing roms. 

 

I'm convinced that 100 is the minimum number of CIB games that you can expect to move unless the quality is piss poor. That's not enough for me to recover costs, so if roms dip physical sales below 100, it could be a financial disaster for me. 

[+Steve Jones]

I liked the way you sold Dragons and Swords with an LTO Rom sent to purchasers of the CIB version, personally I buy CIB but I like having roms too,

more and more I find myself playing Intellivision games on my laptop using jzintv and a flashback controller, just for convenience more than anything.

 

I would pay $10-15 extra for an unlocked rom available immediately when pre-ordering a CIB copy.

 

But these expensive clubs don't seem fair to me, especially if you have already bought the available roms as CIB and LTO-roms already, 

I didn't think the Collectorvision club was a fair deal either.