Intelligentleman Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Recently acquired what is by almost all accounts a very nice music keyboard for the ECS. Unfortunately there is a group of keys just to the left of center that seem to be in a permanently "pressed" state. these keys are also much much firmer to the touch than the surrounding keys. It almost feels like something is pushing up on the keys from underneath, causing them to trip the contact sensor... Anyone ever encounter anything like this on an otherwise "like-new" music keyboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeguychicago Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 It's not hard to take the keyboard apart and see what's going on underneath. The keys themselves are relatively easy to remove and reseat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bikeguychicago said: It's not hard to take the keyboard apart and see what's going on underneath. The keys themselves are relatively easy to remove and reseat. Might have found the problem: looks like a warped PCB... Edited March 25, 2021 by Intelligentleman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 Can anyone think of a way to get that board to lay a bit flatter? If I can do that, I think the problem with those stuck keys goes away. Can the PCB be super glued to the shell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendocon Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 I have the same problem with mine. There is a YouTube video of somebody fixing an ECS Music Synthesizer. Try watching that first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, Zendocon said: I have the same problem with mine. There is a YouTube video of somebody fixing an ECS Music Synthesizer. Try watching that first. Yep... Watched that last night. He says the PCB was basically just glued down at a couple of points by melting the plastic knob thingies. If I could squirt a little super glue in there, and then somehow gently clamp it down over night, it might be all I need to fix it... Anyone know if crazy gluing the underside of the PCB will disturb the conductivity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rietveld Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) Did you see David Murray's video ? Edited March 25, 2021 by rietveld 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, rietveld said: Did you see David Murray's video ? I did, thank you. Good news is that this keyboard is in comparitively great shape. The foam tape, for example, has no visible signs of wear, aside from the handful of keys that seem to be getting pushed upward by a bend in the PCB. If I can get that thing to lie down, this keyboard should be ready to rock. Question is, how... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 I don't know much about PCBs and what is a critical surface and what is not. The green parts with metal conduits, for example, is crazy glue likely to cause harm if applied there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rietveld Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 27 minutes ago, Intelligentleman said: I don't know much about PCBs and what is a critical surface and what is not. The green parts with metal conduits, for example, is crazy glue likely to cause harm if applied there? instead of glue why not try a good quality ( sticky) duct tape to test out where and how far to hold the PCB down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humblejack Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Can you push it back down over the existing plastic pegs and then gently press the center of the peg with a soldering iron to mushroom the top of the peg? Just a thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, Humblejack said: Can you push it back down over the existing plastic pegs and then gently press the center of the peg with a soldering iron to mushroom the top of the peg? Just a thought. Well I don't have a soldering iron, but I was wondering if there were any pegs holding it down originally. If I can get it back underneath those, that might be enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Humblejack said: Can you push it back down over the existing plastic pegs and then gently press the center of the peg with a soldering iron to mushroom the top of the peg? Just a thought. Are you saying to gently push down on the PCB and then re-activate the solder a little bit so that it re-congeals at the new position? Either way, this is beyond what I feel comfortable doing... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humblejack Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 It looks like the PCB is separated from the shell in your pics. If it is then there should be some posts on the shell that the PCB fits over and is melted on the top to hold the PCB to the shell. I may be misinterpreting the way things your pic is showing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, Humblejack said: It looks like the PCB is separated from the shell in your pics. If it is then there should be some posts on the shell that the PCB fits over and is melted on the top to hold the PCB to the shell. I may be misinterpreting the way things your pic is showing. Ok, I think I understand. I only removed enough keys to see what was going on in the problem area. These posts... Are they the metallic dots we can see clearly in my second pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decle Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) Unfortunately, a little bit of research suggests that properly straightening a warped PCB probably needs both heat and force... https://www.circuitrework.com/guides/3-2.html and there is some scepticism that it can be done without potentially compromising other components or solder joints... https://www.circuitnet.com/experts/88133.html I guess the good news is that given where you're at, you don't have much to lose trying something. Interestingly, despite what the 8-bit Guy says, it looks as though the ECS Music Keyboard was built by a reputable manufacturer, Pratt-Read. It seems they manufactured the keybeds for the Polymoog, Sequential Prophet 5, Oberheim OB-Xa and other famous synths. Their supplying Mattel is mentioned by Gary Moskovitz at 46:30 in his Intellivisionaries interview with @nurmix and is corroborated by this history of Pratt-Read: "A major blow came in 1984 with the loss of a large contract to manufacture keyboards for Mattel Electronics's Intellivision home video system. This was exacerbated by a slump in the piano industry in mid year." I guess the Mattel keybed came from the budget range Edited March 26, 2021 by decle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 16 minutes ago, decle said: A little bit of research suggests that properly straightening a warped PCB probably needs both heat and pressure... https://www.circuitrework.com/guides/3-2.html and there is some scepticism that it can be done without potentially compromising other components or solder joints... https://www.circuitnet.com/experts/88133.html I guess the good news is that given where you're at, you don't have much to lose trying something. Interestingly, despite what the 8-bit Guy says, it looks as though the ECS Music Keyboard was built by a reputable manufacturer, Pratt-Read. It seems they manufactured the keybeds for the Polymoog, Sequential Prophet 5, Oberheim OB-Xa and other famous synths. Their supplying Mattel is mentioned by Gary Moskovitz at 46:30 in his Intellivisionaries interview with @nurmix and is corroborated by this history of Pratt-Read: "A major blow came in 1984 with the loss of a large contract to manufacture keyboards for Mattel Electronics's Intellivision home video system. This was exacerbated by a slump in the piano industry in mid year." I guess the Mattel keybed came from the budget range Yeah the guy in the video said the construction of the keyboard wasn't all that bad, just that the conduction mechanism was "extraordinarily dumb." Maybe that's true, but it doesn't seem that dumb to me. It seems to work reasonably well and it would have been super cheap to replace/repair... Had the market not crashed shortly after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intelligentleman Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 And the other thing is... I don't need or want it to be properly straightened. I just want to be able to use the keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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