A Tale of three XEs - hardware mods and issues help needed

[Beeblebrox]

Hi all.

 

Having recently rejoined the A8 scene after a 20+ year gap I've recently rescued some of my Atari A8 machines from the attic.

 

I have 3 x Atari XEs which i guess I aquired in the late 90's. (A lot has happened since then  )

 

• A 65XE modded with Stereo Pokey and a 320K upgrade. This is my current machine and it is working well.

• A 130XE modded with an RS232 and Ultramon. Works well.

• A 65XE which boots but has issues.

 

All are PAL (I live in the UK)

 

I did have a stock 130XE and 800XL with 1050 drives in the late 80s and all through the 90's but I've yet to locate them. 

 

A also have a SIDE3 cart (amazing bit of kit ) and an SDrive Max.

 

I have a few questions for each XE which I am hoping the community will have some answers too.  I don't have any particular electrical smarts as such so forgive my ignorance ... generally. 

 

I'll start with the stock 65XE which is experiencing some issues.

 

65XE

 

On the face of it I thought it was working. Sound and visuals appear ok. It boots to the READY prompt and the keyboard is working. Self test is showing RAM/ROM spears ok. I soon realised something was amiss when I tried my Rescue on Fractalus cart. It boots but the top buttons ((HELP/START/SELECT/OPTION/RESET) don't work.

 

I then tried to boot my SIDE3 cart and I just get a grey blank screen. Same with the SDrive Max. Nothing boots, reset doesn't work. Not sure what is up there.

 

With the non functioning buttons I initially put it down to the membrane.

I did open it up and the ribbon cable appears to be seated in the MB socket and it seems ok.  

 

Then I noticed there is a mod on the main board, blue wires and an additional resistor.

 

Anyone have any ideas which this is doing and whether this could be causing any of the issues?

 

 

130XE with Ultramon and RS232 mods

 

I have a very vague memory of purchasing this at a computer fair BITD.

 

It boots well, all keyboard and buttons function, the SIDE3 and SDrive MAX function and Self test seems all ok.

The 6502 and GTIA are socketed and so is the OS (piggybacked with the Ultramon I guess) but all the other chips on the MB are soldered, (nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!) 

 

The only issue I've got with the performance is that I noticed that the colours are a little washed out compared with my 65XE 320k Stereo A8, (on the same monitor). I'll go into this in a bit.

 

I don't really have any use for the RS232 and Ultramon mods anymore and have not tested them (via the switch at the rear).

 

The main question I have here is this. Given the current mods (RS232 and Ultramon), and the fact that some of the chips are soldered to the board - would this likely complicate any future U1MB, Sophia 2 or Pokey mods?

 

(BTW If I did ever go for anything I'd very unlikley undertake it myself  - I am terrrible at soldering at the best of times ).

 

 

 

65XE 320K Stereo A8

 

This is my current machine given it has Stereo and 320K no brainer really. 

 

Boots well, keyboard/buttons work. Self test all good, SDrive max and Side3 work well. Colours aren't bad.

All the chips on the MB are directly soldered (Double nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!)

 

My main questions are what 320K mod is this and also as before would anything here cause an issue for someone if I wanted this machine to receive the U1MB, Sophia 2 upgrades?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Colours washed out on 130XE RS232/ULTRAMON A8

 

Finally just going back to the 130XE RS232 and Ultamon A8 and the colour issue.

 

If you look at these images, both running on the 65XE 320k/Stereo A8 and then the 130XE RS232/ULTRAMON A8:

 

65XE 320k/Stereo

 

130XE RS232/ULTRAMON:

 

you'll see the 130XE RS232/ULTRAMON A8 is washed out. I've done nothing with the monitor at all when switching between the two to illustrate this.

 

I guess this is just a quirk of this particular 130XE given both A8s' are outputting to the same monitor via the same upscaler?  (DIN to S-VIDEO, S-Video to HDMI Upscaler 720p 60hz HDMI to VGA, DELL 2007FBP 20" 4:3 TFT monitor). Monitor settings already set at highest generally for reds. BTW  upside of the upscaler is I don't get flickering TIP/HIP interlaced images. 

 

Incidentally I am aware the jailbars are due in part to the unsheilded S-video cable as well as the upscaler and also possible some interferance within the A8's themselves. I have a sheilded DIN to S-Video cable in the pipeline so hopefully that'll help things.

 

Given the colour is better on the 65XE 320k/Stereo A8 I'd likely upgrade that with the U1MB and Sophia 2 mods at some stage.

 

Anyways, any insight into anything above of any of these A8s would be greatly apprecaited. 

 

Also I am aware I posted large image sizes. I figured it was needed especially for the MB so it was clear. 

 

thanks in advance.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Beeblebrox
typos

[Sugarland]

With regard to video output differences, this is the case with many A8's that the video output varies. You might be able to improve the video quality with some adjustments of the video circuitry.  First try the color pot, since the color looks different.

 

I would not recommend altering/upgrading your primary 65XE with U1MB. It's not worth it. You already have 320K and can run the vast majority of RAM enhanced games/applications.  Your SIDE3 gives you spartados and hard drives.  You'll regret removing them and altering your favorite machine.

 

Yes the modifications you show could cause compatibility issues with U1MB.  I suggest you wait for the upcoming external U1MB that will plug into PBI. Unsure if there will be a dedicated ECI version so you may need an adapter.

 

With regards to the SIDE3 failing on the one machine, I suggest you inspect and clean the cart slot.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Sugarland

[Sugarland]

Quote

On the face of it I thought it was working. Sound and visuals appear ok. It boots to the READY prompt and the keyboard is working. Self test is showing RAM/ROM spears ok. I soon realised something was amiss when I tried my Rescue on Fractalus cart. It boots but the top buttons ((HELP/START/SELECT/OPTION/RESET) don't work.

 

The carbon traces for the function keys on the mylar are probably failing. It happens with age. Other keys and whole rows may start to fail. You can use some silver conductive paint to restore the traces and pads or replace the mylar with a brand new one.

[_The Doctor__]

Look up the keyboard fix I and others have commented on... you only need add a couple of resistors to fix the console keys...

I would not undo the the ultramon rs232 mod... I would dump the eprom contents for folks to look at. close ups of the mods and all that would be nice. If you have the documents and write ups about them ... that would be awesome to read.

 

130XE video fix here http://ftp.atarimania.com/mags/pdf/twaug-newsletter-issue-33.pdf

Edited June 7, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[TGB1718]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

Then I noticed there is a mod on the main board, blue wires and an additional resistor.

 

Anyone have any ideas which this is doing and whether this could be causing any of the issues?

That may well be a factory fitted fix, I have something similar in one of my 130XE's which has been there since I bought it new.

[Sugarland]

7 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

That may well be a factory fitted fix, I have something similar in one of my 130XE's which has been there since I bought it new.

 

It's a self destruct circuit used by MI6 for emergency communiqué.  Even if powered off, the deceptively tiny resistor holds enough electrons to send a catastrophic failure through all the chips. Can't reveal how it's activated.

 

[Voxel]

Back in the 90's in the UK, Gralin International, were putting out a few modified XE's with 320K, the Ramrod XE upgrade and the upgraded PIA (6522 VIA) mod for the printer interface.  It appears you may have purchased one from them.

 

I've borrowed an image of yours and highlighted an area of your XE that shows good colour performance.  I'm pretty certain if you look at the XE where the colours are not performing the difference in that area of the circuitry will be evident.

 

For info if you look at post #12 of the thread below you may find your solution to the colour issue:

 

From memory I'll explain it as, the electron beam has a frequency which results in the colour/intensity and if the timing circuit is not giving the colour circuit the ability to keep the frequency constant the colours on the screen are not constant so vary pixel by pixel (in a horizontal path) and in the case of the XE, it will not reproduce the desired result if the colour tuning circuit is not complete.

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

53 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

That may well be a factory fitted fix, I have something similar in one of my 130XE's which has been there since I bought it new.

@TGB1718 thanks - any just out of curiosity if this additiona resistor/blue wire addition was done at the factory BITD - what does it do?

[_The Doctor__]

it makes the difference for a couple of reasons as the digital noise is reduced and the supply to the video circuit is not as restricted. The video circuit on the 130XE is  starved...  more so and especially when there are modifications added to it.. this mod and a quality cable cleans it up nicely. It allows quick response killing the noise a bit and allows the current to flow nicely. It's a better tuned circuit and simply put... it works very well

[_The Doctor__]

the 2 bodge wires are supposed to be a timing fix... and on the other side of the pcb a trace is also cut. It is a factory mod

Edited June 7, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[Beeblebrox]

2 hours ago, Sugarland said:

With regard to video output differences, this is the case with many A8's that the video output varies. You might be able to improve the video quality with some adjustments of the video circuitry.  First try the color pot, since the color looks different.

 

I would not recommend altering/upgrading your primary 65XE with U1MB. It's not worth it. You already have 320K and can run the vast majority of RAM enhanced games/applications.  Your SIDE3 gives you spartados and hard drives.  You'll regret removing them and altering your favorite machine.

 

Yes the modifications you show could cause compatibility issues with U1MB.  I suggest you wait for the upcoming external U1MB that will plug into PBI. Unsure if there will be a dedicated ECI version so you may need an adapter.

 

With regards to the SIDE3 failing on the one machine, I suggest you inspect and clean the cart slot.

@Sugarland thanks. I'll look up what color pot means first () and do some research. 

 

320K is great of course but there are games (Atari Blast, Space Harrier) which require 1MB.  However the main reason for the U1MB upgrade would be to unlock SIDE3's amazing functionality (effectively using it as a HDD, full ATR support, PDM audio player). Having been using the SDrive Max for a good month then discovering a cart like SIDE3 has been a real eye opener. Virtually instaneous loading on the SIDE3 is amazing. With Sdrive max you have the 8:3 filename limitation and it's not that easy to find things. Then you have a 10 second loading time to load up say a 23k Rastaconverted image XEX which you have to mount first and reset the A8 to load.

On SIDE3 you have the extended filenames. You just select it, it loads within a second, and a quick press of the joystick trigger and you are back to the same directory to load up another image or file. Games like Albert load in a few seconds. FJC's loader interface is amazing. (I am sure many of the other carts out there are equally amazing).

 

I did hear about the upcoming external U1MB so I'll hang fire.

 

I'll have a go at cleaning the 65XE's cart slot contacts. Thanks for all the info. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, Sugarland said:

 

The carbon traces for the function keys on the mylar are probably failing. It happens with age. Other keys and whole rows may start to fail. You can use some silver conductive paint to restore the traces and pads or replace the mylar with a brand new one.

@Sugarland thanks, I'll read up on this.

 

[Beeblebrox]

Look up the keyboard fix I and others have commented on... you only need add a couple of resistors to fix the console keys...

I would not undo the the ultramon rs232 mod... I would dump the eprom contents for folks to look at. close ups of the mods and all that would be nice. If you have the documents and write ups about them ... that would be awesome to read.

 

@_The Doctor__ thanks - I'll have a look at those posts. FYI all the images I posted are the original full resolution pics so you should be able to zoom in on them and see the mods clearly.

 

I don't have any documentation for the 130XE with RS232/ULTRAMON mods. I vaugley recall buying it at a computer fair in the late 90's and likely bought it because it had the RS232 interface, (where it just happened to have the ULTRAMON thrown in). It's been in an attic for 20+ years. I may well sell this A8 as I am sure someone would use these mods. I wouldn't have a clue how to dump the Eprom contents to share although I can look into it, (love a challenge). Will see.

 

Ideally I'd want to find my 800XL as that was the A8 I used for years in the late 80's and all the way through the 90s. (I did everything on it). I love the top loading cart slot for a start. 

 

thanks 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[Beeblebrox]

57 minutes ago, Voxel said:

Back in the 90's in the UK, Gralin International, were putting out a few modified XE's with 320K, the Ramrod XE upgrade and the upgraded PIA (6522 VIA) mod for the printer interface.  It appears you may have purchased one from them.

 

I've borrowed an image of yours and highlighted an area of your XE that shows good colour performance.  I'm pretty certain if you look at the XE where the colours are not performing the difference in that area of the circuitry will be evident.

 

For info if you look at post #12 of the thread below you may find your solution to the colour issue:

 

From memory I'll explain it as, the electron beam has a frequency which results in the colour/intensity and if the timing circuit is not giving the colour circuit the ability to keep the frequency constant the colours on the screen are not constant so vary pixel by pixel (in a horizontal path) and in the case of the XE, it will not reproduce the desired result if the colour tuning circuit is not complete.

 

 

@Voxel thanks for the advice/links. I've a lot of additional reading to do.

 

Back in the 90's in the UK, Gralin International, were putting out a few modified XE's with 320K, the Ramrod XE upgrade and the upgraded PIA (6522 VIA) mod for the printer interface.  It appears you may have purchased one from them.

 

Good to put a potential name to the memory upgrade re: my Stereo 65XE 320K A8. I know there were many over the decades, (Rambo and compy shop spring to mind).  

[Beeblebrox]

@Voxel @_The Doctor__  just checking out the 130XE video fix here http://ftp.atarimania.com/mags/pdf/twaug-newsletter-issue-33.pdf     - thanks both for putting me onto this.  (TWAUG mags - now that brings back memories - I was a regular subscriber, (that and the Grim Reaper if I recall - where does the time go?! )

[Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, Voxel said:

Back in the 90's in the UK, Gralin International, were putting out a few modified XE's with 320K, the Ramrod XE upgrade and the upgraded PIA (6522 VIA) mod for the printer interface.  It appears you may have purchased one from them.

 

I've borrowed an image of yours and highlighted an area of your XE that shows good colour performance.  I'm pretty certain if you look at the XE where the colours are not performing the difference in that area of the circuitry will be evident.

 

For info if you look at post #12 of the thread below you may find your solution to the colour issue:

 

From memory I'll explain it as, the electron beam has a frequency which results in the colour/intensity and if the timing circuit is not giving the colour circuit the ability to keep the frequency constant the colours on the screen are not constant so vary pixel by pixel (in a horizontal path) and in the case of the XE, it will not reproduce the desired result if the colour tuning circuit is not complete.

 

 

@Voxel  ok just read the Twaug guide - this is making sense now.

 

My 65XE 320k Stereo A8 has these resistors already in place as illustrated below:

 

 

 

 

Whereas the 130XE RS232/ULTRAMON A8 doesn't as you rightly pointed out:

 

 

 

I'll source the mentioned 9 x resistors, transistors and capacitors and see how I go.

 

thanks again.

[Beeblebrox]

Just to add what Stereo mod do you think I have with the 65XE 320k Stereo modded A8?

 

I also noticed that the pole switch didn't seem to make a noticable difference when flipped either way. (There are no markings on the case to indicate when Stereo is off or on). So I had a Stereo demo (Cyberpunk) running which detects the A8 spec including when you have a Stereo mod installed. I assumed flipping the switch one way and then the other (A8 powered off in between just in case), would either disable the Stereo and this wouldn't be detected.. OR you wouldn't hear the stereo output. Unplugging left/right audio indicates stereo is on all the time.

 

Here is the image again of the stereo mod:

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Beeblebrox
incorrect info corrected

[Sugarland]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

@Sugarland thanks. I'll look up what color pot means first () and do some research. 

 

To the right of your 65XE's RAM there are two vertical blue capacitors. To the right and slightly higher is the color pot adjust - a mostly circular stainless steel adjuster with a rectangular hole in the middle for a standard screwdriver. R38 I believe it is labeled. That is the color pot. While the machine is on, turn it around to adjust the color to your desired result.

[Beeblebrox]

3 hours ago, Sugarland said:

 

With regards to the SIDE3 failing on the one machine, I suggest you inspect and clean the cart slot.

@Sugarland Just to say thanks again for the tip. This may or may not be a contributing factor. However as mentioned the Rescue of Fractalus cart loads fine and there is of course the issue of the SDrive Max not working which is plugged into the SIO so unrelated to the cartridge. Of course as with anything there may well be multiple failures with this A8 causing these issues. Just odd that SDrive max and the Side3 cart don't work.

 

The keyboard issue I am looking into with all the advice given. (Replacing resistors as per The Doctor's advice may well be my way forward before I start cleaning the Mylar).

 

Incidentally I also found a working Atari 400 in the attic too. Gotta love those keyboards - still works!! I remember playing on it when I was 6!

 

thanks

[Beeblebrox]

24 minutes ago, Sugarland said:

To the right of your 65XE's RAM there are two vertical blue capacitors. To the right and slightly higher is the color pot adjust - a mostly circular stainless steel adjuster with a rectangular hole in the middle for a standard screwdriver. R38 I believe it is labeled. That is the color pot. While the machine is on, turn it around to adjust the color to your desired result.

@Sugarland Re Colour pot - ah penny drops - thanks! (Learn something everyday!)

[Voxel]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

Just to add what Stereo mod do you think I have with the 65XE 320k Stereo modded A8?

Ignorantly I gave mine away (two of them) so can't confirm, but back then the standard stereo mod churned out in the UK was the "Gumby" stereo mod.  It should be a variation of that.

[TGB1718]

9 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

Re Colour pot - ah penny drops - thanks! (Learn something everyday!)

for "pot2" read potentiometer which is an adjustable resistor (variable resistor)

[TGB1718]

11 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

  just checking out the 130XE video fix here http://ftp.atarimania.com/mags/pdf/twaug-newsletter-issue-33.pdf     - thanks both for putting me onto this.  (TWAUG mags - now that brings back memories - I was a regular subscriber, (that and the Grim Reaper if I recall - where does the time go?! )

Thanks for that link, I might well do this mod, I have such a difference between my 800 and 130XE when connected to my LCD monitor,

The differences are so far apart and adjusting the screen every time I switch between them is a real pain, I'll do the mod to my stock 130XE first

an see how it goes, hopefully they will come closer together.

[TGB1718]

Just checked one of my XE's, mod not needed, explains why the 130XE picture seems better than the 800

Note the same MOD as yours, looks like I need to do something to the 800's video output

[Beeblebrox]

4 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

Just checked one of my XE's, mod not needed, explains why the 130XE picture seems better than the 800

Note the same MOD as yours, looks like I need to do something to the 800's video output

@TGB1718 Interesting. Good luck with the 800 mod.