576NUC+ is Here!

[+LarryL]

1 minute ago, Dinadan67 said:

Mine arrived today, the shipment took just two days from California to Germany!

How much tax did you have to pay?

I am from Germany, too…

i am also thinking of ordering, but hesitating a bit…

[Dinadan67]

6 minutes ago, LarryL said:

How much tax did you have to pay?

 

I paid 74€, so the hole system (with case and internal Fujinet) cost me 350€ including shipping and tax. DHL has simplified the process, i got an Email in advance and could pay the tax via Paypal.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Dinadan67

[+LarryL]

Thanks @Dinadan67

seems I have to wait until next month (or the month after) …

 

but the 576NUC+ looks damn awesome ? 

[+orpheuswaking]

I’m running my NUC through a Retrotink and it works great. I thought about putting a Sophia in there (and did just for a test) but without a good way to mount the connector I’ll be sticking with the Retrotink. 
 

For my second NUC I’ll be feeding that directly to a PVM with a dedicated Atari monitor cable. 
 

If a solution appears that allows for a Sophia to be mounted securely I may change that, but I love the little guy just as he is. 

[bfollowell]

2 hours ago, Dinadan67 said:

Mine arrived today, the shipment took just two days from California to Germany!

 

Now that's moving on!

 

My last order from @tf_hh took like three months. Of course, it was at the height of the pandemic lockdowns and worldwide shipping had come to almost complete standstill. Still, 2 days seems incredibly fast even at the best of times for the distance covered.

 

[rsh]

Atari 576Nuc+ is cool.  I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find a clear answer in the description.

1) Can it run exactly like 130XE with extended memory banks?   It's says XL,XE,...  but that could mean the brit version of 800XL.   

2) What do you need to run an actual cartridge? I found some mention about adding to a port?  Which port and what device (name) exactly would we need?

3) Is the video enhanced,  Is it the best that S-Video can provide?   Any screens shot from say 130xe vs 576Nuc S-Video output.

Thanks!!

 

[massiverobot]

39 minutes ago, rsh said:

Atari 576Nuc+ is cool.  I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find a clear answer in the description.

1) Can it run exactly like 130XE with extended memory banks?   It's says XL,XE,...  but that could mean the brit version of 800XL.   

2) What do you need to run an actual cartridge? I found some mention about adding to a port?  Which port and what device (name) exactly would we need?

3) Is the video enhanced,  Is it the best that S-Video can provide?   Any screens shot from say 130xe vs 576Nuc S-Video output.

Thanks!!

 

Not a designer, just a user but I'll take a stab:

 

1. it has a 500k memory expansion compatible w/ RAMBO ?

2. you will need the new FujiNet/Cartridge card that @Mr Robot is working on now

3. video has VGATE, it seems to be as clean as you can get it. SVIDEO out into my Sony is very rich and stable.

 

I don't have a 130 to compare to, sorry.

 

[+DrVenkman]

16 minutes ago, massiverobot said:

Not a designer, just a user but I'll take a stab:

 

1. it has a 500k memory expansion compatible w/ RAMBO ?

2. you will need the new FujiNet/Cartridge card that @Mr Robot is working on now

3. video has VGATE, it seems to be as clean as you can get it. SVIDEO out into my Sony is very rich and stable.

 

I don't have a 130 to compare to, sorry.

 

As a member of the beta/testing team, some clarifications:

1. 512K expansion that can optionally be addressed independently by SALLY/ANTIC (toggled by a key-combo via the TK-II firmware and EMMU).

2. The baseline design is built around an integrated FujiNet daughterboard that fits on top of the main board and sits internally to the case. When/if a future cartridge option is ready, it will require a new daughterboard and case top to match. When that may be available is TBD.

3. The 576NUC+ has Mytek’s bespoke video circuit that provides really crisp, clean video. Combined with the modern PCB’s ground plane, video is really, really nice out of the box. Easily on par with a UAV or better, depending on the system the UAV is installed into. The VGATE referred to is a PIC microcontroller that limits visible graphics noise on the left-right edges of the screen when used on modern 16:9 displays. Unless your 4:3 monitor is vastly misadjusted, the VGATE will have no impact on the visible display. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the analog video signal quality itself. 

BTW, similar VGATE functionality is built into the earlier 1088XEL and XLD board designs as well.  

[+mytek]

Ditto to everything DrVenkman just posted. I couldn't have said it better, or possibly even as good ?

 

On this project I was attempting to make the smallest, and most inexpensive Atari 8-bit computer derived from real Atari VLSI chips. The main goal as opposed to previous motherboard projects I had created, was to keep it composed of off-the-shelf parts instead of being reliant on 3rd party upgrades. Hence the reason that this one has no UAV requirement, but instead has UAV quality video output built-in. And although it doesn't have a U1MB at the heart like a few of my previous projects, it still tries to at least bring a tiny bit of that into this design with the 512kb of extended RAM (576kb total RAM when combined with the base 64kb), and a couple of OS, Language, and Game slots (requires external programmer to change). Implementing an internal FujiNet made it complete.

 

Because of this no 3rd part upgrade philosophy, we ended up with a very reasonably priced fully assembled and cased unit coming out of TBA, while still be very powerful at the core.

 

Sure it doesn't allow for every imaginable upgrade to be added after the fact, but that was never the intention. This more like what I'll call the Goldilocks system. It's that "just right" combination of tech, not too much, and not too little.

 

[rsh]

46 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

As a member of the beta/testing team, some clarifications:

1. 512K expansion that can optionally be addressed independently by SALLY/ANTIC (toggled by a key-combo via the TK-II firmware and EMMU).

2. The baseline design is built around an integrated FujiNet daughterboard that fits on top of the main board and sits internally to the case. When/if a future cartridge option is ready, it will require a new daughterboard and case top to match. When that may be available is TBD.

3. The 576NUC+ has Mytek’s bespoke video circuit that provides really crisp, clean video. Combined with the modern PCB’s ground plane, video is really, really nice out of the box. Easily on par with a UAV or better, depending on the system the UAV is installed into. The VGATE referred to is a PIC microcontroller that limits visible graphics noise on the left-right edges of the screen when used on modern 16:9 displays. Unless your 4:3 monitor is vastly misadjusted, the VGATE will have no impact on the visible display. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the analog video signal quality itself. 

BTW, similar VGATE functionality is built into the earlier 1088XEL and XLD board designs as well.  

Ok sounds good for the cartridge support, I can wait for the cartridge board.  I think the video quality answers my question very excited about that, Thank you all.. 

I'm still not sure about it running just like an 130xe, if you answered my question I'm too dense to understand what your saying ..  There are two ways to tell if you can see the extended banks from basic. One is with a peek and I can't  remember what that was, the other is via BASIC XE.  Has someone tried to run basic XE with extensions disk and typed extend then ? Fre(1) it should show 65534 (or close to it).

Thanks

Edited July 2, 2021 by rsh

[rsh]

I found this:  Good Old FREDDIE chip.

FREDDIE
=======
The 65XE/130XE/800XE/XEGS contain a small additional LSI called FREDDIE, a RAM
address multiplexer.  According to James Bradford, "FREDDIE is a type of
memory controller.  It takes the address and clock from the CPU and
multiplexes it with the appropriate timings and signals to use DYNAMIC memory.
FREDDIE also buffers the system clock crystal and divides it down then feeds
that to GTIA.  The XEGS has a FREDDIE but it doesn't have the extended RAM.
Even if it did, you would still need the chip that does the REAL bank
switching.  It is a small 16-pin chip (Atari/Best Electronics catalog number
CO25953: rev9/page 42).  It gets RAS from FREDDIE, the bank select bits from
PIA, A14, A15 and the 6502 halt signal to control which bank of 8 chips RAS
goes to.  A14 and A15 then go to FREDDIE for the address range of the extra
memory bank (or normal address range with no bank switching).  The ANTIC/6502
select bits in combination with the 6502 halt line, control the switching of
the PIA bank number bits to A14/A15 and which bank of memory RAS goes to.  Why
people say FREDDIE does the bank switching is beyond me.  An 800XL can look
like a 130XE with that 16-pin chip installed (That's right NO FREDDIE) and an
extra 8 RAM chips."

And more recently James Bradford has written:
FREDDIE is just a memory decoder and timer. It replaces several chips in the
800XL.  The small chip near FREDDIE does all the bank selection.  CO25953.
One line from FREDDIE, Ras (or is it cas?) goes to this chip, Halt and the
bank /processor select lines go into this same chip and ras (cas?) comes out.
A pin for each bank.  If I remember correctly, refresh also goes into this
small chip. It would be quite easy to make an 800XL work just like a 130XE
with this chip since Ras (Cas?) is required by ALL dynamic RAM.

So I'm guessing since this is based on XEGS spec it does not have the capability.  Please let me be wrong?   it would need the  bank switching chip 16pin C025953.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by rsh

[bfollowell]

25 minutes ago, rsh said:

Ok sounds good for the cartridge support, I can wait for the cartridge board.  I think the video quality answers my question very excited about that, Thank you all.. 

I'm still not sure about it running just like an 130xe, if you answered my question I'm too dense to understand what your saying ..  There are two ways to tell if you can see the extended banks from basic. One is with a peek and I can't  remember what that was, the other is via BASIC XE.  Has someone tried to run basic XE with extensions disk and typed extend then ? Fre(1) it should show 65534 (or close to it).

Thanks

 

I'm not certain that I understand this concern for whether or not the 576+ NUC acts exactly like a 130XE or not. Are there any games or applications that are not capable of fully accessing any of the available memory upgrade types? Why the concern over 100% 130XE behavior? What is there that you can do with a 130XE that you can't do with any other similarly memory expanded Atari 8-bit computer?

 

Am I missing something?

 

[rsh]

9 minutes ago, bfollowell said:

 

I'm not certain that I understand this concern for whether or not the 576+ NUC acts exactly like a 130XE or not. Are there any games or applications that are not capable of fully accessing any of the available memory upgrade types? Why the concern over 100% 130XE behavior? What is there that you can do with a 130XE that you can't do with any other similarly memory expanded Atari 8-bit computer?

 

Am I missing something?

 

I have code that runs on 130xe and would like it be available with the 576NUC.   It's important to me.  I wrote the code in the 80's.   Some I plan on releasing to everyone.. maybe on FUJINET servers would  be a good place.... just need to fix some more bugs first.  Most is written in basic XE but I am thinking about porting them to Action!..  Most need the extended banks, via PORTB .   (that's why I haven't ported to Action! need special code for that). 

Edited July 2, 2021 by rsh

[+DrVenkman]

Well, BASIC XE (and Action!) for that matter, is canonically a cartridge, though file versions do exist. Free memory will vary if you load from disk.

 

That said, the banking scheme should be completely XE-compatible. Certainly nothing we've thrown at these boards in 7-8 months of testing has revealed any memory-scheme incompatibility. The EMMU code is from @tf_hh so maybe Jürgen can provide more details.

[rsh]

31 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Well, BASIC XE (and Action!) for that matter, is canonically a cartridge, though file versions do exist. Free memory will vary if you load from disk.

 

That said, the banking scheme should be completely XE-compatible. Certainly nothing we've thrown at these boards in 7-8 months of testing has revealed any memory-scheme incompatibility. The EMMU code is from @tf_hh so maybe Jürgen can provide more details.

That sounds super promising that it does support normal 130xe bank switching.   I would really appreciate if someone could test that out in (BASIC XE w/extension disk) type: extend then ? Fre(1)  should get 65534 (or close to it), that would definitely confirm it.   Thank you the 576Nuc+ is super cool, It would be fun to easily carry around.. game and code with no issues.    Has someone thought about making a carring case??

Edited July 2, 2021 by rsh

[+mytek]

There is a 320K (64K base+256K extended) compy shop mode that mimics the 130XE's separate Antic/CPU banking scheme. It is selectable by using the extended memory toggle command CTRL+ALT+X (ALT+X will show the present setting). This setting is non-volatile, and will be restored upon power-up.

[_The Doctor__]

4 hours ago, mytek said:

There is a 320K (64K base+256K extended) compy shop mode that mimics the 130XE's separate Antic/CPU banking scheme. It is selectable by using the extended memory toggle command CTRL+ALT+X (ALT+X will show the present setting). This setting is non-volatile, and will be restored upon power-up.

That would be the ideal default mode.

[+mytek]

45 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

That would be the ideal default mode.

There is no default mode per se,  it's up the user to decide between that or 576K Rambo mode.

[Dinadan67]

I finally had the time to play around with mine, i'm very impressed. So much power in such a small case! As you can see in the photo, the artifacting colors are green/magenta, my 800 shows blue/green. That was expected as green/magenta is the color scheme of the UAV. I will use of course S-Video most of the time, but it is nice to have artifacting for the Apple II ports.

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Dinadan67

[Dinadan67]

Sadly the trigger button of joystick port 1 is not working. As i am on summer vacation at the sea the next two weeks, i will look at it later. Maybe there is just one loose wire that needs to be resoldered.

[+DrVenkman]

Old meets new - my prototype 576NUC+ running the new Prince of Persia from one of my Happy 1050 drives.  

 

 

[rsh]

On 7/2/2021 at 7:16 PM, mytek said:

There is a 320K (64K base+256K extended) compy shop mode that mimics the 130XE's separate Antic/CPU banking scheme. It is selectable by using the extended memory toggle command CTRL+ALT+X (ALT+X will show the present setting). This setting is non-volatile, and will be restored upon power-up.

Excellent!  I think I saw a video where the mode was being switch and remember seeing compy at the top.  Thanks! 

[+gnusto]

On 7/3/2021 at 5:49 PM, DrVenkman said:

Old meets new - my prototype 576NUC+ running the new Prince of Persia from one of my Happy 1050 drives.

Now I'm curious - what's running through the big white break out board? It's placed so prominently I assume you fiddle with it a lot. 

[+DrVenkman]

2 minutes ago, gnusto said:

Now I'm curious - what's running through the big white break out board? It's placed so prominently I assume you fiddle with it a lot. 

Not sure what you mean by "big white breakout board." I've got my prototype PCB mounted on a piece of foam board to protect the SMD components on the underside, and keep the thing from sliding all over my desk.  If you mean the white SIO connector on the back, that's where my floppy drives were plugged in for testing. The NUC+ PCB has a footprint for a 15-pin Dsub connector. I have a separate little PCB with a mating 15-pin connector on one side and a new-made injection molded SIO connector that I got here on the forums last year.  

[+gnusto]

4 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Not sure what you mean by "big white breakout board." I've got my prototype PCB mounted on a piece of foam board to protect the SMD components on the underside

This is the part I was curious about. It's hard to see (for me at least) in the picture but it looked like it might be wired in/out of your machine config there. And some random capacitors and push pins ;). Just got me wondering.