Avalon Hill - TAC problems

[mdivancic]

I really enjoy old hybrid style wargames where the computer does the calculation but the map or play surface is more traditional (ie. paper). I've been trying to get Avalon Hill's Tactical Armor Command to run, but I can't get past the attached screen on any of the images I try (there are four). I've tried my 800xl/U1M/Side3, my nuc576+ and Altirra with several different profiles. Images are attached, could someone give these a try and see if they work for you? I would love to know if I'm doing something wrong.

 

 

Atarimania:

TAC - Tactical Armor Command.atr

 

Internet Archive:

TAC - Tactical Armor Command (1983)(Avalon Hill)(US).atr

TAC - Tactical Armor Command (1983)(Avalon Hill)(US)[a].atr

TAC - Tactical Armor Command (1983)(Avalon Hill)(US)[k-file].atr

[Mclaneinc]

Tried all of those and all of mine, including ATX's and none went passed that screen.. I think I tried every memory type, OS firmware, real drive etc etc.. Read and write on...You name it...

 

Found it: Dropped into Altirra's debugger and looked at what it was doing...Waiting for stick input..

 

It looks like it wants keyboard input but if you move the stick it selects one or w player and a button press takes you on...

 

Thanks to the lovely debugger on altirra..

 

Paul..

Edited July 24, 2021 by Mclaneinc

[mdivancic]

8 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Found it: Dropped into Altirra's debugger and looked at what it was doing...Waiting for stick input..

 

It looks like it wants keyboard input but if you move the stick it selects one or w player and a button press takes you on...

Really? Well crap. The docs don’t say anything about joystick!

[+DrVenkman]

36 minutes ago, mdivancic said:

Really? Well crap. The docs don’t say anything about joystick!

I just fired it up in Altirra with a bone-stock 48K OSb 800 and yep, sure enough it needs joystick input (directions + Fire button) to make all selections.

 

[mdivancic]

54 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

I just fired it up in Altirra with a bone-stock 48K OSb 800 and yep, sure enough it needs joystick input (directions + Fire button) to make all selections.

Thanks guys. Must be a Atari specific sheet I’m missing. The instructions I have talk about keyboard input (the are generic and cover several systems). 

[Mclaneinc]

 

No problem Mike, I got caught by the idea it was waiting for keyboard input just as much as you, I knew it had to work as there are so many versions about, so while it was refusing to do anything I just thought, lets see what the program is doing and there it was polling Joystick one..

[Lord Thag]

Nice to see someone else who likes these early board/video game hybrids. A couple of the Avalon Hill ones are pretty good, as is Epyx' Oil Barons.

I got stuck on this exact same screen on TAC, and for the same reasons!

[mdivancic]

17 hours ago, Lord Thag said:

Nice to see someone else who likes these early board/video game hybrids. A couple of the Avalon Hill ones are pretty good, as is Epyx' Oil Barons.

I got stuck on this exact same screen on TAC, and for the same reasons!

I’m not even sure this is the same game I remember as I don’t remember anything but keyboard control. I need to breakout my C64 version and see how that plays. 
 

I have all the AH “board games” and a lot of the Simulation Canada games for other platforms. I’ve supplied scans of the components and maps plus disk images to Atarimania for ST versions. If you have any of the missing ones please let me know as I would like to get as many as possible on line. 
 

I guess I need to check out Oil Barons!

[Lord Thag]

36 minutes ago, mdivancic said:

I’m not even sure this is the same game I remember as I don’t remember anything but keyboard control. I need to breakout my C64 version and see how that plays. 
 

I have all the AH “board games” and a lot of the Simulation Canada games for other platforms. I’ve supplied scans of the components and maps plus disk images to Atarimania for ST versions. If you have any of the missing ones please let me know as I would like to get as many as possible on line. 
 

I guess I need to check out Oil Barons!

I've got two or three of these, TAC being one.

 

I think Close Assault is the other off the top of my head, and this may be the one you're thinking of, as it's straight up old school chit and hex stuff with the Atari telling you where to move the chits (all keyboard commands). Tanktics was also a board/video game hybrid I think, but I don't have that one. Close Assault is further improved by running a modern basic like Altirra, as it drastically speeds up the 'thinking' of the Atari, if memory serves.

Honestly, given how big Avalon Hill's wargames were back then, I am surprised we didn't get more of these hybrid games, particularly AI opponents for their popular titles like Third Reich, Panzer Blitz or Squad Leader. Panzer Blitz in particular would have been pretty easy to implement, I think, if they had picked smaller scenarios. I suspect these would have sold much better if they actually had popular/known games as hybrids, and maybe advertised the AI being available in the actual popular board games as well.

[tommywiz]

On 7/24/2021 at 8:11 AM, mdivancic said:

I really enjoy old hybrid style wargames where the computer does the calculation but the map or play surface is more traditional (ie. paper). I've been trying to get Avalon Hill's Tactical Armor Command to run, but I can't get past the attached screen on any of the images I try (there are four). I've tried my 800xl/U1M/Side3, my nuc576+ and Altirra with several different profiles. Images are attached, could someone give these a try and see if they work for you? I would love to know if I'm doing something wrong.

 

 

Atarimania:

TAC - Tactical Armor Command.atr 90.02 kB · 8 downloads

 

Internet Archive:

TAC - Tactical Armor Command (1983)(Avalon Hill)(US).atr 90.02 kB · 6 downloads

TAC - Tactical Armor Command (1983)(Avalon Hill)(US)[a].atr 90.02 kB · 6 downloads

TAC - Tactical Armor Command (1983)(Avalon Hill)(US)[k-file].atr 40.39 kB · 8 downloads

I have one called "Planet Miners". Dont remember much about it. I have the box but havent looked inside for many, many, many years!

I have several others but do not remember their names.

[BillC]

On 7/28/2021 at 6:14 AM, mdivancic said:

I’m not even sure this is the same game I remember as I don’t remember anything but keyboard control. I need to breakout my C64 version and see how that plays. 
 

I have all the AH “board games” and a lot of the Simulation Canada games for other platforms. I’ve supplied scans of the components and maps plus disk images to Atarimania for ST versions. If you have any of the missing ones please let me know as I would like to get as many as possible on line. 
 

I guess I need to check out Oil Barons!

I have a CIB tape version of Tanktics, and also a CIB version of Dnieper River Line except for the original tape/disk. 

 

I will eventually be scanning these for the Atari 8-bit Software Preservation Initiative and Atarimania, plus other boxes/contents, but for the time being I am concentrating on dumping floppies.

[Mclaneinc]

Happy dumping Bill...

[telengard]

 

Quote

On 7/28/2021 at 10:20 AM, Lord Thag said:

I've got two or three of these, TAC being one.

 

I think Close Assault is the other off the top of my head, and this may be the one you're thinking of, as it's straight up old school chit and hex stuff with the Atari telling you where to move the chits (all keyboard commands). Tanktics was also a board/video game hybrid I think, but I don't have that one. Close Assault is further improved by running a modern basic like Altirra, as it drastically speeds up the 'thinking' of the Atari, if memory serves.

Honestly, given how big Avalon Hill's wargames were back then, I am surprised we didn't get more of these hybrid games, particularly AI opponents for their popular titles like Third Reich, Panzer Blitz or Squad Leader. Panzer Blitz in particular would have been pretty easy to implement, I think, if they had picked smaller scenarios. I suspect these would have sold much better if they actually had popular/known games as hybrids, and maybe advertised the AI being available in the actual popular board games as well.

 

Yup, Tanktics is hybrid.  Close Assault is great if you like this style of game (played it tonight, be careful, bad input can give unrecoverable input/output error).

 

It's very close to Squad Leader, trimmed down a bit in places.  I also have Dniper River Line and Tanktics which include counters and a board.

 

I tried the Warp Speed in Altirra playing Close Assault and it only works well when the AI is "thinking", during normal play the keyboard input gets wonky w/ the repeats.  I also play with my ASL components for the LMG/MMG/Leaders rather than use the notepad.

 

I had read in CGE #10 that the original disk included the source code.  Is this true?  I will have to dig out my floppy and image it to see.  I only have an .xex and a multi game .atr with Close Assault on it.

Edited October 5, 2021 by telengard

[mdivancic]

8 hours ago, telengard said:

I had read in CGE #10 that the original disk included the source code.  Is this true?  I will have to dig out my floppy and image it to see.  I only have an .xex and a multi game .atr with Close Assault on it.

I don’t have a drive, no way to check.

[telengard]

I imaged and uploaded the disk version of the game.  The tape version is already in the preservation archive.

 

 

[mdivancic]

23 hours ago, telengard said:

I imaged and uploaded the disk version of the game.  The tape version is already in the preservation archive.

 

 

Is there any difference?

[telengard]

12 minutes ago, mdivancic said:

Is there any difference?

There doesn't seem to be, it's just a preservation thing (although the my initial attempts at imaging haven't gone well).

[Lord Thag]

On 10/4/2021 at 10:09 PM, telengard said:

 

I had read in CGE #10 that the original disk included the source code.  Is this true?  I will have to dig out my floppy and image it to see.  I only have an .xex and a multi game .atr with Close Assault on it.

I'll have to check when I get home, but most of the old basic games allow you to [Break] out of the running program and be dropped directly into the code. Whether this one qualifies I don't recall, but generally, this only covers the basic part of the program. These are often Basic/Assembly hybrids and breaking the program wont show you the ASM routines.

It would be fairly doable, if the program is part basic, to break and list out the basic program to a PDF via Fujinet and then use an emulator to dump the ASM routines to a listing as well, with some referencing of the BASIC program's CALL/POKE/PEEK statements.

[BillC]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:05 PM, BillC said:

I have a CIB tape version of Tanktics, and also a CIB version of Dnieper River Line except for the original tape/disk. 

I don't think I will be scanning either of these manuals as I found complete 300DPI PDFs for both on archive.org, including maps and unit tiles, links below.

 

To download the manual for Tanktics you must use the "6 original files" link at the bottom of the download options, the link to the PDF itself stalled whenever I tried it. The manual for Tanktics is very large, part of this is due to the 16" x 22" Terrain Map included.

 

https://archive.org/details/dnieper-river-line-1982-avalon-hill-game-company/mode/2up
https://archive.org/details/tanktics-1981-avalon-hill-game-co

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by BillC

[BillC]

15 hours ago, BillC said:

To download the manual for Tanktics you must use the "6 original files" link at the bottom of the download options, the link to the PDF itself stalled whenever I tried it. The manual for Tanktics is very large, part of this is due to the 16" x 22" Terrain Map included.

I thought 340MB for Tanktics seemed extremely large so I extracted the images, resaved them with GIMP using lossless compression, then created 3 new PDFs with NAPS2. The size of the attached ZIP file is >95% smaller.

Tanktics Manual.zip

Edited January 18, 2022 by BillC