+jgkspsx Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Soooooo… I am reviving my 7800 collection. I got out my collection from storage and realized I was awful close to completing the collection. I saw a UK seller on eBay with appealing prices on the games I really wanted but didn’t have (e.g. Midnight Mutants, Motor Psycho, and a few others) and ordered them. It didn’t occur to me at all that there might be region locking. I saw a reference to a “PAL 7800” in the thread about the returning 7800 owner and with a growing lump in my throat I’ve been reading about how PAL carts don’t work on NTSC consoles and how NTSC carts are messed up on PAL consoles. As of 2012 it seemed like the only option was to switch the console bios to PAL, but that would presumably mess up many of the games I own. Ack. I got complacent because I freely bought Lynx and Jaguar games without regard to region and assumed 7800 would be the same. I also have gotten to take for granted playing EU and JP Mega Drive, Master System, and Game Gear games with the Mega SG or with adapters on a real Genesis; or PC Engine games on my Turbografx with an adapter. I am wondering if there’s any decently easy way to play them. I might be able to beg the seller to cancel if I do it quick, but I’m wondering if I might be able to mod my console to be able to play them without ruining my ability to play my existing collection. The cost differential between what I paid and what the NTSC versions are going for might well pay for a mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Short answer is no. You can get a region free BIOS and the games will at least boot. Some maybe be mostly playable, some completely unplayable. Mitch 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 The new BIOS developed by both RevEng and PacManPlus will allow PAL 7800 games to be played on the an NTSC console. But as Mitch stated above, there are caveats to this with some games not playing properly or loading up properly at all. Hit and miss really. But the BIOS would still allow you to play your current NTSC games without issue. I thought the BIOS versions provided by Best and The Brewing Academy still allow normal NTSC games to play correctly on NTSC consoles though? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted August 2, 2021 Author Share Posted August 2, 2021 Is there a compatibility list? Here are the games I bought: Karateka Fight Night Planet Smashers Tower Toppler Food Fight Motor Psycho Midnight Mutants Impossible Mission How hard is the install? Just socketing a new IC or something more involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said: I thought the BIOS versions provided by Best and The Brewing Academy still allow normal NTSC games to play correctly on NTSC consoles though? It does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Basically just buy a PAL7800 and find a way to connect it to a display your end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 7 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said: I thought the BIOS versions provided by Best and The Brewing Academy still allow normal NTSC games to play correctly on NTSC consoles though? One of my consoles has the Universal/Euro BIOS offered by Best Electronics. All NTSC games play fine. There is no encryption check or wait, games run immediately, and if no cartridge is inserted, Asteroids runs. Off the top of my head, the only NTSC ROM it has issues with is the Diagnostic Test Cartridge. But as Mitch stated, PAL games will be a mix bag (at best). For instance, PAL Commando runs about halfway through the copyright message and then the system completely freezes. Looking at the hardware facts, NTSC containing 263 scanlines per frame, while PAL has 313, as soon as a PAL title looks to leverage anything above 263, it will be a sure crash on an NTSC system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 6 hours ago, jgkspsx said: How hard is the install? Just socketing a new IC or something more involved? Per the Best Electronics section on the BIOS swap: Items required for this 7800 Euro Operating Modification: General Soldering: 25 Watt Soldering Iron Solder Needle Nose Pliers Xacto knife Small pair of Diagonal cutters VOM Meter Phillips Screwdriver A good Solder Sucker or a lot of Solder Wick The ability to follow written installation instructions The ability to read chip pin numbers This upgrade is so simple no schematics / prints are supplied. About 1/2 to 1 hour installation time. Items Supplied with the Best 7800 OS Upgrade Modification: 8 page Installation Instructions with 9 color photos New 7800 OS chip Jumper wire New 7800 28 pin OS I.C. Socket New Interface I.C. Atari 7800 US Consoles OS Upgrade Kit CB102669 $17.95 Phone: 408-278-1070 (1:30-5 PM, PST, M-F) E-Mail: bestelec@bestelec.digitalspacemail8.net 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted August 2, 2021 Author Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Trebor said: Looking at the hardware facts, NTSC containing 263 scanlines per frame, while PAL has 313, as soon as a PAL title looks to leverage anything above 263, it will be a sure crash on an NTSC system. Aha, so that’s why Motor Psycho dies. I wonder if Midnight Mutants and Food Fight work. Those are the games I want the most, though I guess the NTSC Food Fight isn’t too expensive. I would still love to know what PAL games are compatible. I sent the seller a message begging to cancel. I guess if they don’t I’ll worry about it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, jgkspsx said: ...I would still love to know what PAL games are compatible... While there have been a few threads listing NTSC games running under a PAL system, this one probably the most thorough, coupled with another, running PAL under NTSC doesn't seem to have had the same breakdown listing. Nonetheless, there is much more luck running NTSC games on PAL consoles than PAL games running on NTSC consoles, even with a swapped BIOS, due to the hardware differences between the consoles' graphics chip (MARIA). A PAL 7800 MARIA chip is running 50 frames @ 313 scanlines. An NTSC 7800 MARIA chip is running 60 frames @ 263 scanlines. PAL MARIA can handle 263 scanlines, NTSC MARIA cannot handle 313 scanlines. The color palette is also different between the two chips. Even if the PAL game runs without crashing on an NTSC console, the best experience will be the game contains a wrong color palette with an image positioned higher or lower on the screen than it should be while running at the wrong speed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, jgkspsx said: Aha, so that’s why Motor Psycho dies. I wonder if Midnight Mutants and Food Fight work. Those are the games I want the most, though I guess the NTSC Food Fight isn’t too expensive. I would still love to know what PAL games are compatible. I sent the seller a message begging to cancel. I guess if they don’t I’ll worry about it then. I've got a PAL Food Fight and can confirm that it doesn't work at all in the NTSC 7800. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Put them on the shelf and buy a concerto or dragonfly cart 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Also it seems that Scrapyard dog will begin and then crash when you try and start the actual game? I also have what I believe is a PAL Ikari Warriors cart. It comes up but everything is shifted down on the screen. When you start the game, there is a lot of graphic corruption mainly on the upper portion of the screen and the entire game runs at a snails pace. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 4 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Also it seems that Scrapyard dog will begin and then crash when you try and start the actual game? I also have what I believe is a PAL Ikari Warriors cart. It comes up but everything is shifted down on the screen. When you start the game, there is a lot of graphic corruption mainly on the upper portion of the screen and the entire game runs at a snails pace. Title screen of PAL Scrapyard Dog is playing within the 263 scanlines limit of NTSC. Once the game is started it is likely going greater than 263, causing the crash. Definitely PAL on that Ikari Warriors cart. On a PAL machine, the screen would be better centered and that garbage would not be seen as it would be outside the visible area. Due to the NTSC MARIA calling for 60 frames and the game is only providing 50, you see similar slowness with the initial copyright text for PAL Commando, it appears at a much slower pace than its NTSC counterpart under an NTSC console. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 I've long suspected this copy of Ikari Warriors I have was PAL given it at least plays. The Scrapyard cart I wasn't so sure of. Now that I think about it, I think scrapyard actually comes up on a stock NTSC console but still crashes at the title screen. I will need to check that but at this point I no longer have a 7800 with a stock BIOS in it given the past few days LOL! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted August 2, 2021 Author Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, juansolo said: I've got a PAL Food Fight and can confirm that it doesn't work at all in the NTSC 7800. This is with a region-free bios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, jgkspsx said: This is with a region-free bios? Not yet... Gonna be swapping shortly though so will update when I do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 FWIW, I tried a load of PAL games via the DragonFly on my NTSC 7800 (standard BIOS) and none of them worked. We've run PAL stuff on an NTSC machine with a region free BIOS however when we had one pass through our hands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted August 4, 2021 Author Share Posted August 4, 2021 Well, the seller kindly agreed to cancel the order. Phew. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolmesA8 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) Sell me your PAL 7800 games!! They are so hard to find here, been tempted to imports some NTSC games but know from past experience it's a mixed bag on what works and the colours are usually messed up. Edited August 7, 2021 by HolmesA8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted August 7, 2021 Author Share Posted August 7, 2021 4 hours ago, HolmesA8 said: Sell me your PAL 7800 games!! They are so hard to find here, been tempted to imports some NTSC games but know from past experience it's a mixed bag on what works and the colours are usually messed up. Go to town! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-7800-games-over-100-games-/384068617013 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Any way to play them: Buy a PAL 7800 on ebay (they are cheap now), and a el-currency transformer (220->110) I have both PAL and NTSC. NTSC runs a little faster, but PAL has the advantage of some titles being much more easily accesible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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