8bit-Dude Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I got myself an XE Lightgun, to use with 130XE. Bug Hunt and Barnyard Blaster work absolutely fine, and I find the horizontal accuracy fair enough. But the better games, i.e. Operation Blood and Special Forces, are just unplayable. The crosshair seem to respond to lightgun movement only 5-10% of the time. I wonder if there is a trick I am missing, to get these games to work??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, 8bit-Dude said: I got myself an XE Lightgun, to use with 130XE. Bug Hunt and Barnyard Blaster work absolutely fine, and I find the horizontal accuracy fair enough. But the better games, i.e. Operation Blood and Special Forces, are just unplayable. The crosshair seem to respond to lightgun movement only 5-10% of the time. I wonder if there is a trick I am missing, to get these games to work??? I too have not had much luck with O.B., as far as the accuracy. I have three different lightguns (Best, converted Sega, and Atari's XE light guns), all are about the same accuracy on my CRT screen. Try adjusting the intensity on your monitor/TV. Brightness of the screen is critical. Too bright, the crosshair may not register. Never heard of Special Forces lightgun game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) I believe Special Forces is the sequel to Operation Blood, IIRC. I never owned a lightgun* or any of Atari's lightgun games. The only one that ever interested me was Crime Busters. But Operation Blood and if I right about Special Forces being the sequel (the sequel could be called Operation Blood II and I am misremembering) and it's not a game from another developer, both have versions that can be used with an ST or Amiga mouse. Or an Atari trackball converted to work like an ST mouse. I have an ST mouse I use. Though it's been a few years since I played them. *I have a Sega lightgun, I had it for years planning to do the invert trigger mod on it so it works with Atari's lightgun games, but never have yet and sort of forgot about it since I don't have a CRT screen available atm. But I recently re-acquired a 7800 and really want to play Alien Brigade on it too, so I think I'm going to dig that Sega gun out of storage and convert it to use with both systems finally. I do have an old CRT TV in storage that only has composite video, but I can use it until I get a good Sony Trinitron CRT with S-video input. But I had always heard that Atari's lightgun is crap and totally inaccurate, but that Best's and Sega's guns were much better. Edited August 17, 2021 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) Special Forces - Operation Blood II (1993)(Mirage Software)(PL)[req 64K].atx Special Forces - Operation Blood II (1993)(Mirage)(PL)[m light gun Homesoft].atr !st file is Joystick version, 2nd is Lightgun.. Edited August 17, 2021 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Gunstar said: I believe Special Forces is the sequel to Operation Blood, IIRC. I never owned a lightgun* or any of Atari's lightgun games. The only one that ever interested me was Crime Busters. But Operation Blood and if I right about Special Forces being the sequel (the sequel could be called Operation Blood II and I am misremembering) and it's not a game from another developer, both have versions that can be used with an ST or Amiga mouse. Or an Atari trackball converted to work like an ST mouse. I have an ST mouse I use. Though it's been a few years since I played them. *I have a Sega lightgun, I had it for years planning to do the invert trigger mod on it so it works with Atari's lightgun games, but never have yet and sort of forgot about it since I don't have a CRT screen available atm. But I recently re-acquired a 7800 and really want to play Alien Brigade on it too, so I think I'm going to dig that Sega gun out of storage and convert it to use with both systems finally. I do have an old CRT TV in storage that only has composite video, but I can use it until I get a good Sony Trinitron CRT with S-video input. But I had always heard that Atari's lightgun is crap and totally inaccurate, but that Best's and Sega's guns were much better. Believe me. That Atari lightgun is JUST as good as the Sega and Best's. No different. Sitting only 12 to 24 inches from the screen, they all are about equal. I have read all the hype about the Sega being the most accurate, not true, just hype. You don't have to actually mod the gun, just build the inverter, common parts, easy to do. Either way, light gun games can be fun. A lot of people pan Barnyard Blaster, it's easily my favorite L.G. came. I have all the L.G. games. As for CRTs, I still prefer to use a CRT with my Atari8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin1968 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Are you using it with a CRT? They don’t work with LCD, or so I have heard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Gavin1968 said: Are you using it with a CRT? They don’t work with LCD, or so I have heard. If you are asking me, I only use CRT for my Atari 8s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Well, Operation Blood II or 2 = Special Forces. I have heard (or read?) that the "authors"* of the lightgun version of Op. Blood and Special Forces did not own a real lightgun themselves and only tested via emulation and/or some lightgun example programs - and that is why these (and a few other lightgun games) are very inaccurate, even if you own a good working Atari lightgun. But maybe I am mis-remembering ?!? * authors of the lightgun versions are not the real authors, they (Homesoft, TML) simply hacked/patched the standard version for use with a lightgun On the other hand, as already mentioned, the original Atari lightgun is the worst of the three lightguns one can use for the A8 (Atari, Best, Sega). Think I once owned an A8 lightgun that was so inaccurate that almost no lightgun game worked with it and thats something I am normally only used to the Atari lightpen. (Using Atari Graphics with the lightpen, one can adjust the inaccuracy of the pen, with other lightgun/lightpen programs I have to click 3-4 cm to the left of the object/button/etc. I want to hit or use.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) Depends on the Atari Light gun, quality control was all over the map... most great, some suck, some in between... You tweak can tweak them a little though... calibration is key for them as well, try calibrating closer to the screen than you would play and return to your normal play position see how it works, then try calibrating further away than you normally play and again go to your normal play position and see how it works. I had certain televisions/monitors that worked great for all and other televsions/monitors that worked like crap for certain guns. Not all crt's based displays are equal, and neither were all light guns ? Edited August 17, 2021 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 DBM. I have 3 or 4 Atari light guns, the accuracy are the same on my set up (Samsung TV, the same model the 8Bit Guy uses). I bet most of you guys don't even use CRTs these days, I still do. I regularly play the L.G. games and I am telling you, the Sega and Best's guns are not any more accurate. It's hype. DBM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 hours ago, gilsaluki said: Believe me. That Atari lightgun is JUST as good as the Sega and Best's. No different. Sitting only 12 to 24 inches from the screen, they all are about equal. I have read all the hype about the Sega being the most accurate, not true, just hype. You don't have to actually mod the gun, just build the inverter, common parts, easy to do. Either way, light gun games can be fun. A lot of people pan Barnyard Blaster, it's easily my favorite L.G. came. I have all the L.G. games. As for CRTs, I still prefer to use a CRT with my Atari8 I'd rather put the inverter in the gun, I have an old and simple mod circuit diagram, and the gun has been laying disassembled in a box for years already. Thanks for the heads-up on them all being equally as good, or awful. If I didn't like the Sega gun I was going to see about getting a Best gun and avoid the Atari one. But I'll just mod the Sega and know I have one as good or awful as any.? I'll also be repainting it and badging it as an Atari 7800 lightgun as I like my controllers to match my systems and I'll use it on the 7800 mostly because, like I said, I only care for Crime Busters on the 8-bit lightgun games (and Operation Blood games using a mouse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: Not all crt's based displays are equal. ? That's for sure! After owning a number of brands of CRT TV's over the years and finally a 36" Sony Trinitron, I swear by Trinitrons, and normally I'm not a fan of Sony products. But they definitely have the best picture of CRT's with their proprietary large single lens system. I'll go out of my way to pay top dollar for one today, even though most other brands are being given away or thrown away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Gunstar said: That's for sure! After owning a number of brands of CRT TV's over the years and finally a 36" Sony Trinitron, I swear by Trinitrons, and normally I'm not a fan of Sony products. But they definitely have the best picture of CRT's with their proprietary large single lens system. I'll go out of my way to pay top dollar for one today, even though most other brands are being given away or thrown away. Trinitron's were very sharp. They were pricey, but worth it. I believe my Sony T. was the last TV I had worth fixing. Now, no TV is fixed. Except rare models for enthusiasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 My Sega MasterSystem gun + my mod board combo works great on both a vintage C1702 and my 2003 27” Toshiba CRT. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin1968 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 5 hours ago, gilsaluki said: If you are asking me No, I am asking the original poster of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Correct CRT needed for light gun though expensive work a-rounds electronic adaptions exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Hello guys I seem to remember that the light gun versions of Operation Blood and Special Forces were done by A.N.G. Software. Maybe @Fred_M can confirm or deny that. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, Mathy said: Hello guys I seem to remember that the light gun versions of Operation Blood and Special Forces were done by A.N.G. Software. Maybe @Fred_M can confirm or deny that. Sincerely Mathy Whereas I seem to remember that one of these lightgun versions was done by Homesoft and the other one was done by The Missing Link. But I am quite sure @Fred_M can confirm or deny that. Here is what atarimania says: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-operation-blood_38018.html http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-special-forces_12389.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Hello Andreas Not really sure, but in a dark and dusty corner of my mind I seem to have found the information that The Missing Link might be an alias of John Maris, who ran A.N.G. Software way back when. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8bit-Dude Posted August 18, 2021 Author Share Posted August 18, 2021 10 hours ago, gilsaluki said: Try adjusting the intensity on your monitor/TV. Brightness of the screen is critical. Too bright, the crosshair may not register. Never heard of Special Forces lightgun game. Ah, that sounds like a good idea! I will try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 well brightness and contrast... contrast up a bit, background brightness down a bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8bit-Dude Posted August 18, 2021 Author Share Posted August 18, 2021 It worked!!! Though in my case, I actually needed to increase the brightness! Special forces is awesome, I really like the graphics and difficulty level! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_M Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 7 hours ago, Mathy said: Hello guys I seem to remember that the light gun versions of Operation Blood and Special Forces were done by A.N.G. Software. Maybe @Fred_M can confirm or deny that. Sincerely Mathy The light gun version of Operation Blood was done by ANG (=The Missing Link = John). When Special Forces was released by Mirage it did not have light gun support, that game supported only joystick and mouse. Light gun support for Special Forces was an unofficial hack. 14 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said: I have heard (or read?) that the "authors"* of the lightgun version of Op. Blood and Special Forces did not own a real lightgun themselves and only tested via emulation and/or some lightgun example programs - and that is why these (and a few other lightgun games) are very inaccurate, even if you own a good working Atari lightgun. But maybe I am mis-remembering ?!? Sorry, you are mis-remembering The light gun routine for Operation Blood was programmed by John (ANG) on real hardware when he visited Pawel and Tomasz of Mirage in Poland. It was a kind of bet with the Polish guys that John would be able to implement light gun support in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8bit-Dude Posted August 18, 2021 Author Share Posted August 18, 2021 Damn, i forgot just how much fun Lightgun games are when well implemented. Special forces is ACE! And you know what? I am now even mooting writing a new Light Gun game for the A8, with 8bit-Unity! I wonder what format to go for??? Maybe 1v1, like Battle Clash? Is there any particular game style that you guyz would like to see on the A8??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 16 hours ago, DrVenkman said: My Sega MasterSystem gun + my mod board combo works great on both a vintage C1702 and my 2003 27” Toshiba CRT. THAT's the way to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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