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Crazy Climber Redux Thoughts...

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Here are my thoughts on the latest ROM release on Crazy Climber Redux. I personally think quite a bit of work still needs to be done before this gets released. 

 

 

 76F66156-5237-4455-960E-DC61861D17E5.thumb.jpeg.3fab4df6429ee5c3df37bbb26d40e06d.jpeg

 


William asked for feedback on Crazy Climber Redux, and here are my thoughts after my initial play through:


1. This game is not “Crazy Climber.” At least not yet. The look of the game is there, but gameplay needs a lot of work before this can be considered a port of Crazy Climber. 


2. Controls. I have already talked about this quite a bit in the video I posted earlier as well as other topics that have been started. In summary, it needs to mimic the arcade controls for dual stick mode, and the Atari 2600 version for single stick mode. Video: 

 


3. Climbing animation. Along with the changes in the controls for # 2, there needs to be visual feedback in the form of arm and leg animation to let the player know when he is climbing and where each limb is at so the controls will work. See either the arcade version or the Atari 2600 port for reference. 


4. Window mechanics - the windows opening and closing don’t work anything like they did in the arcade version.  In the ROM I played, it didn’t seem like it really mattered that much if the windows were open or closed. If your hands were on the window sills or not. The character just seemed to climb straight up and past the windows as though they weren’t even there. 


5. Dropping flower pots - The current design has the pots dropping from off the top of the screen wherever the player is currently located with no warning. This should be more like the arcade version where you can see the person in the window about to drop the pot. This will give the player some warning as to where to move in order to avoid the flower pot. Even the Atari 2600 version has this element and it is fundamental to the original game design. 


6. Condor poop scene - This is completely missing and according to William, it is not planned to be added. I would strongly suggest adding this back to the game. 


7. King Kong scene - This is completely missing and according to William, it is not planned to be added. I would strongly suggest adding this back to the game. 


8. Sound FX - The current build only has sounds for the pots dropping and when the player gets hit. I did not hear any other sounds or music in the main gameplay screens. There should be at least climbing sounds when the character moves up the building.


9. Helicopter roof goal - there didn’t seem to be much of a goal at all to the levels. I would climb a bit and then in a very jarring way, I would taken to another screen with no warning with fewer rows of windows. This didn’t feel like a new level or any sort of accomplishment was made. 


10. Enemy tweaking - the only other enemy I saw was a flying insect in level two and as the rows of windows shrank, this enemy was impossible to avoid and seemed completely unfair. 


I fully respect that this is William’s game and he can design it how he sees best. But I feel many people backed this project because they felt it would be a port of the arcade game Crazy Climber, which is what was implied in the Kickstarter campaign. The current ROM resembles the arcade game in “look” but not at all in game play. 


If you disagree with my comments above, that’s fine, but William did post the ROM and ask for feedback. 

 

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I have to ask… did you contact Milli about all your concerns prior to writing up this lengthy list of concerns as well as recording the video?

 

if so and your concerns were ignored, than I better understand.

 

if not, then I think you should delete this thread and anything else that you have posted elsewhere.

 

I’m sorry, but all I have to go on at the moment is this thread and you come across all panicked like this is the end of the world.

 

EDIT: especially seeing as some revisions have already been made and shared via digital download so no reason to think that Milli wouldn’t consider suggestions and concerns.

Edited by NIAD
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The video brings up very good points, I own an American Crazy Climber cab and backed this project, I am not sure Milli was going for a 1:1 reproduction of the arcade game but I could be wrong.

 

I know he has been working on it as I had mentioned that is seemed to play fast which he said he we would rather be able to slow it down than try to speed it up.  I assume he has been working on issues, but yes once get the game and play it I can see how far he took the idea.

 

I hope the dual controls work well on the final version as I do agree with you as it being the hallmark of the game play mechanic.

 

In any case I wanted to support Milli's project as I want retro programmers to feel encouraged to continue to make games.

Edited by imstarryeyed
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On 9/19/2021 at 10:50 PM, NIAD said:

I have to ask… did you contact Milli about all your concerns prior to writing up this lengthy list of concerns as well as recording the video?

 

if so and your concerns were ignored, than I better understand.

 

if not, then I think you should delete this thread and anything else that you have posted elsewhere.

 

I’m sorry, but all I have to go on at the moment is this thread and you come across all panicked like this is the end of the world.

 

EDIT: especially seeing as some revisions have already been made and shared via digital download so no reason to think that Milli wouldn’t consider suggestions and concerns.

William had no problem at all discussing the project openly for months. He posted about it all over Facebook, there is a discussion about it here on AtariAge, and he posted a ROM and asked for feedback. 
 

Nothing I wrote was out of line, panicking or offensive in any way. 

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19 minutes ago, imstarryeyed said:

The video brings up very good points, I own an American Crazy Climber cab and backed this project, I am not sure Milli was going for a 1:1 reproduction of the arcade game but I could be wrong.

 

I know he has been working on it as I had mentioned that is seemed to play fast which he said he we would rather be able to slow it down than try to speed it up.  I assume he has been working on issues, but yes once get the game and play it I can see how far he took the idea.

 

I hope the dual controls work well on the final version as I do agree with you as it being the hallmark of the game play mechanic.

 

In any case I wanted to support Milli's project as I want retro programmers to feel encouraged to continue to make games.

I agree 100% with everything here. I posted what I did because I was hoping the game would get better or I would get a rational explanation of why the suggestions could not be implemented. 
 

The control system as it is now just simple doesn’t work at all. Even the Atari 2600 version plays much better. 
 

There are just so many examples of this game out there that there shouldn’t be any reason why the control system has ended up the way it has in his version.

 

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On 9/19/2021 at 11:37 PM, TPR said:

William had no problem at all discussing the project openly for months. He posted about it all over Facebook, there is a discussion about it here on AtariAge, and he posted a ROM and asked for feedback. 
 

Nothing I wrote was out of line, panicking or offensive in any way. 

All I’m asking is if you tried to contact him personally about your concerns.

 

To me, it does not matter one bit how Milli has publicly discussed his game, but what would matter to me is if you tried to discuss your concerns with him privately and he told you to go fly a kite.

 

if you did not attempt to contact Milli, then in my opinion you have embarked on a social media barnstorming tour. My opinion, you don’t have to like it.

 

And know this, I appreciate and respect your thoughts on the gameplay, especially concerning the dual controller play mechanics.

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Copied from Facebook 

 

Good morning everyone / I’m not going to get in a name calling contest with the admin of this page because honestly he would just delete the post and ban me but I would like to point out I sent an email to every backer yesterday and as of this morning I have had 15% of them respond back and only one feels the way the admin does and he already posted his opinion on this page. Not a single one asked or any refund, quite to the contrary, with the exception of the one, they are unanimous in their feelings that the admin is out of line and on a power trip, not because of any changes but because of the way he is handling this. It has become a vendetta to him now, posting where ever he can. This my friends is why i have dropped his backing and am refunding his money, not the changes but the actions. This isn’t how you do business. And even though the ColecoVision may be a hobby to you, it is a business to me. It helps feeds my wife and daughter.

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You posted a ROM and asked for feedback. 
 

That is exactly what I did. 
 

You took in over $11,000 and said you were making a Crazy Climber game. Your game is not Crazy Climber. 

I know at least one other person on our Facebook group asked for a refund for similar reasons that I posted above. 

 

I did not ask for a refund nor do I want one. I want the Crazy Climber game you said you were making. That’s how Crowdfunding works.  

 

IMO, I would suggest you actually make Crazy Climber because that is what you implied you were making in your Kickstarter campaign, and so far that is not what you have delivered:

52E7D266-E7CD-4648-920D-059D838D6028.thumb.jpeg.8c3654464a86e4e91c97c95ecb41d455.jpeg

  I'm not telling you to make the changes in my post, but I'm suggesting that I think you should, because you sold people on making a Crazy Climber game. 

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14 hours ago, TPR said:

You posted a ROM and asked for feedback. 
 

That is exactly what I did. 
 

You took in over $11,000 and said you were making a Crazy Climber game. Your game is not Crazy Climber. 

I know at least one other person on our Facebook group asked for a refund for similar reasons that I posted above. 

 

I did not ask for a refund nor do I want one. I want the Crazy Climber game you said you were making. That’s how Crowdfunding works.  

 

IMO, I would suggest you actually make Crazy Climber because that is what you implied you were making in your Kickstarter campaign, and so far that is not what you have delivered:

52E7D266-E7CD-4648-920D-059D838D6028.thumb.jpeg.8c3654464a86e4e91c97c95ecb41d455.jpeg

Your opinion has been noted. You were only 1% of the backers and as of right now it is not trending in your favor and you are no longer a backer. You really are starting to look foolish with this campaign you are on and that is not my opinion, that has been the opinion of every backer that has contacted me as well as dozens of non backers. As i have said so many times it is getting repetitious the controllers are being updated because that was a good idea. As for converting all the work done that the other 99% of the backers as well as those that have purchased advance copies are happy with that is not going to happen. Again I posted this in your facebook group and I will post it here. If you want an arcade exact copy of crazy climber the source code for the game is here (http://www.computerarcheology.com/Arcade/CrazyClimber/ ) all you need to do is work on it to make it run on a CV. I personally was not going to use someone else's code.

 

Now I will go back to work making the backers happy and you can rant as much as you want. Have a great day.

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Can someone tell me how to PRE PAY for the disk version please.   I would love to add it to my collection of quality arcade inspired  modern redux's of vintage games

 

 

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2 minutes ago, rietveld said:

Can someone tell me how to PRE PAY for the disk version please.   I would love to add it to my collection of quality arcade inspired  modern redux's of vintage games

 

 

Once the kickstarter copies are done then I will add a DDP and Disk version to the store and I'll be sure you know :)

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43 minutes ago, TPR said:

Also, I didn’t see that above post you “copied from Facebook” anywhere on Facebook, this is the first time I’m seeing it here in this forum. So is this something else you aren’t being completely up front about? 🤷‍♀️

You just did exactly what I have been waiting for - ban me from your group because you wasn't happy with what I told you. C'est Le Vie

 

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8 hours ago, Milli Vee said:

You just did exactly what I have been waiting for - ban me from your group because you wasn't happy with what I told you. C'est Le Vie

 

You have not been banned from the group. 

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Milli is not good replying to 'constructive' negative emails.  That is a fact and has been experienced on my attempted communication with 8bitM. I am a backer of Crazy Climber, but 8Bit will not allow me to post on 'backer' only discussions that show up on his website.  Huh...

 

I love what 8bit is doing for the Coleco / ADAM community. I have donated to his Archive site along with sending him controllers and other items when  he requested them. On my end... he is a little sensitive and could improve his Customer Service skills. 

 

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24 minutes ago, AdamO said:

Milli is not good replying to 'constructive' negative emails.  That is a fact and has been experienced on my attempted communication with 8bitM. I am a backer of Crazy Climber, but 8Bit will not allow me to post on 'backer' only discussions that show up on his website.  Huh...

 

I love what 8bit is doing for the Coleco / ADAM community. I have donated to his Archive site along with sending him controllers and other items when  he requested them. On my end... he is a little sensitive and could improve his Customer Service skills. 

 

Adam I really don't know what website you are talking about or where you are sending your emails? Do you mean YouTube? As for email where are you sending them?

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I'm done here - I have backers to satisfy and not play he said she said. I was worried yesterday, big name in the CV community is upset at me and posting things everywhere but honestly I now know that though you may think you have sway - the rest of the CV community doesn't feel the same. You may want to stop and reconsider how you treat everyone before you run out of people who actually care. Any who - lovely fall day i'm going to go home and take my beautiful daughter for a walk. In a few years she will be coding in Z80 like her dad.

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33 minutes ago, AdamO said:

I love what 8bit is doing for the Coleco / ADAM community. I have donated to his Archive site along with sending him controllers and other items when  he requested them. On my end... he is a little sensitive and could improve his Customer Service skills. 

 

I 100% agree. I have supported William for many years. Donated to several of his projects. He posted a ROM and asked for feedback. That’s all I did. He should not have posted the ROM and asked for feedback if he wasn’t able to take constructive criticism on his game. 
 

It is extremely common for indie developments to openly discuss the game in public forums. AtariAge has entire boards dedicated to this very thing.

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1 hour ago, Milli Vee said:

I'm done here - I have backers to satisfy and not play he said she said. I was worried yesterday, big name in the CV community is upset at me

No one is upset with you. All I did was post feedback because you asked for it. Nothing in any of my original posts in any way comes off like anyone being upset. 
 

Me and the 1/2 dozen others you banned over this since yesterday that have been discussing it in other groups so yes we know that we was banned. As I said your opini9on isn't relevant - bye

No one has been banned over this. 

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On 9/19/2021 at 2:25 PM, TPR said:

If you have recently backed Crazy Climber Redux, I would strongly encourage you to watch this video and read the recent posts in the ColecoVision Lunatics group to know exactly what you are backing and the responses made by the person who ran the campaign. Thank you.

 

https://fb.watch/87dIlthq6U/

 

 

 

Hey I have to say that is a sweet little Coleco Handheld style Crazy Climber stickers and all. :) Is there any more info on that build? 

 

And yes the controls for CC are what the game is about. Heck even the old Bandai and Entex LED handhelds made efforts to duplicate it.

 

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Just now, NE146 said:

Hey I have to say that is a sweet little Coleco Handheld style Crazy Climber stickers and all. :) Is there any more info on that build? 

 

Yes, that's a Neil Henry build from the FB Group "Old Made New."  You can still order them from him.

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1 minute ago, TPR said:

Yes, that's a Neil Henry build from the FB Group "Old Made New."  You can still order them from him.

You'll probably laugh but I have zero idea how to use Facebook.  I did google that though and it says it's private. Any little more "open" info about it out there? 😛

 

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2 minutes ago, NE146 said:

You'll probably laugh but I have zero idea how to use Facebook.  I did google that though and it says it's private. Any little more "open" info about it out there? 😛

 

Not that I'm aware of, sorry!

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4 hours ago, NE146 said:

You'll probably laugh but I have zero idea how to use Facebook.  I did google that though and it says it's private. Any little more "open" info about it out there? 😛

 

Actually, send me a PM and I can get you his contact info if you are really interested in having him make you a custom Coleco mini.

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I'm seeing Milli Vee acting like a hypersensitive whiner, while I'm see TPR acting like a person who's just trying to constructively critize a commercial CV game. The politics of this do not interest me. I personally have no interest in the Crazy Climber game, but, as an outsider to this drama, just wanted to point out Mr. Vee's childish sensitivity at constructive criticism doesn't sit well with me. I know it must be difficult, very difficult programming for Z80, and especially for CV, but please take a step back and don't take things so personally. It's not pleasant to see "your baby" criticized, but as far as I can tell, this was not done in any malevolent or malicious way. We all want these games to be the *best* possible that they can be. Most authors appreciate this, and take it in stride, in the ongoing effort to improve their products.

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Ladies and gents. This is just a game. A game with many ports. And if one port doesn't match expectations, it's no big deal. Can always fall back to the gold standard of M.A.M.E.

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