Video game bubble 2021

[sirlynxalot]

On 11/29/2021 at 11:43 PM, eightbit said:

I am not so sure what a completely dead rare and super expensive game cart is worth. Maybe something to somebody....but to me it is worthless  

 

I have seen some dead highly sought after games still sell for good money.  I saw a heavily scratched and advertised as non-working Burning Rangers for sega saturn sell for over $50. I personally bought a floodwater damaged copy of a rare dreamcast game for around $30 (about 1/3 of its typical price at the time -  the game disc works btw).  I see plenty of "dead" consoles sell for good money, especially jaguars.  I think there is always a contingent of people who hope they can fix whatever the issue is, or perhaps think "maybe its not truly dead and all it needs is a good cleaning or resurfacing" and will be willing to take the chance.  Even if a cart is truly dead due to bitrot or something, I think there could be a collector market for an otherwise original cartridge that has a new eprom soldered into it, and that would be more palatable to collectors of original hardware than getting a brand new bootleg cart of the game from China made with new but potentially inferior materials.

Edited December 1, 2021 by sirlynxalot

[Keatah]

On 11/30/2021 at 11:01 PM, adamchevy said:

In todays EBay/Amazon world we are just trading money between collectors or the haves and the have nots. It’s devolved into mainly eBay and Amazon just getting rich off of fees, not developers actually getting a dime.

This is why I’ve switched over to only 2 consoles that I buy physical releases for. The Vectrex and the 2600. Atleast I know that the developers are seeing the money when I purchase an amazing Homebrew title.

Yes. I mainly game on x86 PC, and emulation for retro. I only keep a pulse on physical Apple II and TRS-80 Pocket Computers 1, 2, and 4 these days. Maybe some older x86 stuff. Not that anyone develops anything new for the Pocket Computers.

[Austin]

On 11/30/2021 at 4:05 PM, eightbit said:

I can bet that when a Jaguar alternative (MiSTer core or other FPGA console solution) becomes available those Jaguar prices will drop. I think a lot of what keeps the prices high and increasing on this particular console is the fact that there are not many ways to enjoy it outside of....well...owning the real console. Even after so many years software emulation is still not up to speed.

I'd say you would be betting wrong. Excellent cores for other platforms have been on the MiSTer for years now, and the hardware has still only increased in value (Turbo Grafx CD, Sega CD, etc). I doubt a Jaguar core would change anything.

[Hyper_Eye]

3 hours ago, Austin said:

I'd say you would be betting wrong. Excellent cores for other platforms have been on the MiSTer for years now, and the hardware has still only increased in value (Turbo Grafx CD, Sega CD, etc). I doubt a Jaguar core would change anything.

It would change roughly... take that out... carry the one... second power.... bupkis.

[RollOut]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:25 AM, sirlynxalot said:

 

I have seen some dead highly sought after games still sell for good money.  I saw a heavily scratched and advertised as non-working Burning Rangers for sega saturn sell for over $50. I personally bought a floodwater damaged copy of a rare dreamcast game for around $30 (about 1/3 of its typical price at the time -  the game disc works btw).  I see plenty of "dead" consoles sell for good money, especially jaguars.  I think there is always a contingent of people who hope they can fix whatever the issue is, or perhaps think "maybe its not truly dead and all it needs is a good cleaning or resurfacing" and will be willing to take the chance.  Even if a cart is truly dead due to bitrot or something, I think there could be a collector market for an otherwise original cartridge that has a new eprom soldered into it, and that would be more palatable to collectors of original hardware than getting a brand new bootleg cart of the game from China made with new but potentially inferior materials.

That's how I got my Jag. Sold as non-working, and I was willing to do some soldering to get it up and running. Turns out the connectors just needed some cleaning. I definitely got it cheaper than a fully operational unit, but I wouldn't call it "cheap".

[widowsson]

On 11/29/2021 at 3:53 PM, ls650 said:

may we now see the roof of the video game craze? Will the bubble burst soon?

 

The bubble may not, but you had better believe the rubber will!

 

[widowsson]

On 11/30/2021 at 12:23 AM, Keatah said:

 

Many years ago, in the mid to late 1990's I decided on going emulation only. I was just absolutely thrilled to "recover" long lost consoles and the real arcade classics. To be able to play them again after some 10-odd years was a godsend. Especially having believed they were gone forever.

 

And it's only gotten better since. 

So are emulators to real hardware/software as "pocket pu**ies" are to the real, living thing?!?!?

[JaggingUK]

I kind of thought flash carts / SD card readers would drop price of Jaguar games so I sold all my loose / open box ones and bought sealed ones with the money and bought a lot of sealed ones off Telegames too when games like Attack of the Mutant Penguins was £20 - this was a decision I made about 5 years ago

[JaggingUK]

I have about 130 sealed Jag games - doubles triples etc - kind of figured with Telegames selling sealed games at £15-£30 each there was a good chance that I'd have a great collection and be able to make money on them, lots of times I'd buy 4 sealed games, sell 2 on ebay and with the profits from the sale of 2 games I'd basically get 2 sealed games free... Did that for a good few years and built up a great collection for next to nothing... Have noticed lately loose carts and open boxed ones are going for less money but sealed still to command a high price... Started collecting sealed N64 titles too and got about 15 until I am now priced out of the market - Pokemon Snap sealed would be £100, and all my other titles like Mario Tennis were under £200, now even the easiest to find sealed games like Tetrisphere are being listed for £350 buy it now with never a bidder... If you are going to collect you collect mint/sealed - zero point collecting open games when people have access to the games via SD cards - that was just a decision I made about 5 years ago and looking at ebay prices it seems the correct decision so far... Who knows in the future, but when the baseball collecting fraternity are also buying into video games these days (was it a mint nes Mario Bros sold for over a million) I'd say retro video games aren't going anywhere but up in price... Atari are an odd one though - Nintendo and Sega are hugely collectible where Atari is still a bit of a niche market which I find odd as you'd expect one the first companies to market to be more collected which it is not.

[Keatah]

5 hours ago, widowsson said:

So are emulators to real hardware/software as "pocket pu**ies" are to the real, living thing?!?!?

If that's what turns you on. Sure!

[jhd]

11 hours ago, widowsson said:

So are emulators to real hardware/software as "pocket pu**ies" are to the real, living thing?!?!?

 

Everything always comes down to price. How much are you willing to pay? Emulators are essentially free; other options are significantly more expensive.

 

Kobe beef > top sirloin > MacDonald's -- but it's all essentially the same product 

 

[Draxxon]

Just to add my two cents...

 

I always have to laugh whenever I hear someone compare a sealed Super Mario Bros to an Action Comics #1. It's not even in the same fucking universe.

 

Something else, when I see a wall of games behind a collector in youtube videos, its exactly the same type of shit when I see a wall of books behind a lawyer. It's for show, and to prime the viewer.

 

Now to get serious... (just my opinions. This is NOT intended for anyone in particular or in this forum or thread.)

People want to be the best at certain video games. Not everyone can be that. It's actually a really small number of people that are. So the rest, they collect stuff to compensate, is what I think. Not everyone can speed run mario bros or make top 10 at a tekken 7 tournament, but in the past anyone could collect stuff. That's not how it is anymore. A lot of stuff is priced out of reach for the regular joe. And they don't like it. I see hardcore collecting as "competitive" in the gaming world, but in a different way. And, there are way more people collecting now.

 

Not to be a dick, but, the regular joes who can't beat high scores, records, times, or win tournaments, etc. but found their gaming identity collecting, are now being beaten by people with more money, and in some cases, can't afford to even "compete" at buying at all nowadays. Of course they are going to hate it, and wish that it would go away.

And just to be clear, my opinions even apply to me, too. I feel that way as well. And for the record, WATA is a scam, and BS. I'm all for collecting sealed games and paying a premium for condition, if that is what you are into, cool beans. But some of the prices we have seen from WATA are re-God-damn-diculous. Not even close to realistic.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Draxxon

[+cubanismo]

You can still get deals refreshing craigslist every 5 seconds and hitting garage sells every weekend, but eBay and rich folks have probably ruined collecting from the flea markets and local used gaming stores. I guess it just depends on how much effort you're willing to put into the hobby.

 

A counterpoint to your theory: I'm not good at games. I'm pretty damn bad if I'm being honest. I also don't have as much time to play them as I would like these days. However, I do buy them to play them, not to collect them. I do appreciate having physical copies of some of my favorites, and a box to display for the ~dozen that were so good they actually influenced my life. However, my place in the community was never going to be as a competitor, nor a collector. I enjoy co-op or mildly competitive multiplayer, and just running through a single player session and getting on places like this to ask questions and share what I got out of the experience with people who might care to hear it. It's always been a social thing for me to some extent, even when I'm playing alone.

[Keatah]

Fuck'n love it how the video said you're buying the WATA rating and not the game or anything to do with the game proper.

[eightbit]

On 12/14/2021 at 3:26 PM, Austin said:

I'd say you would be betting wrong. Excellent cores for other platforms have been on the MiSTer for years now, and the hardware has still only increased in value (Turbo Grafx CD, Sega CD, etc). I doubt a Jaguar core would change anything.

 

There are no excellent cores on the MiSTer for the Jaguar to date. Here's the only core that I know of and it hasn't has a commit in two years:

 

https://github.com/ElectronAsh/Jaguar_MiSTer_new

 

And it is very very very far from being "excellent". Hardly any game is really playable, and the sound (if any) is absolutely horrendous.

 

Should a core become available that has the same compatibility, playability and quality of the other mature cores you are referring to a lot of people will use it instead of real hardware to get their fix. It's not a bet. I can't tell you how many people have sold off their vintage console and cartridge collections after experiencing the FPGA perfection that is the MiSTer for those systems that have mature cores. If a core existed to play Jag games exactly like the real console in every way you are going to eliminate a large chunk of folks who would have spent the hundreds on real Jag hardware.

 

There will still be people that will buy it and cherish it of course (real consoles and carts, be it Jag or something else), but if another valid option (cheaper, much cheaper) option exists that provides the same experience you will have many people will gravitate to that instead. The people left that still want that real hardware to experience the "nostalgia" of it all will still buy...unless of course they already own it which they probably do. Then you will have the people that do own a large collection that will offload because there is an alternative option that provides the same result from a gaming standpoint and they will either feel the time has come to sell in fear that the value will decrease or simply that they feel that they can make a lot of money and still not lose the ability to enjoy their games.

 

Not promoting FPGA over the real deal mind you, but it is what it is. I am still a "real deal" collector and since the MiSTer project had become so advanced I have been able to grab quite a few real vintage consoles from people at decent prices that decided to sell and move over to that FPGA solution. So, yeah, a lot of the hardware has decreased in value from what I have been experiencing. At the start of 2021 I went on a personal "$50 mission". Gathering as many vintage good condition working consoles and computers at $50 or less. That was a lot of fun actually. I ended up with something around 16 systems IIRC....even a boxed Master System and a complete boxed Vic-20 in superb shape! Am I lucky? Maybe...or maybe there is something else going on.

 

I will say the $50 mission thing was cool. Give it a try. Hunt around ebay, forums, etc. and see how many you can take home for $50 or less. I never did that before (just limiting my spending amount just because) and I was pretty amazed at what I was able to acquire in just one years time.

 

Also bear in mind that a lot of newcomers to what is now called "vintage" game consoles have no real nostalgic tie with the hardware. A lot of them weren't even born when it was released. You and I may have those nostalgic feelings of when we were at Child World or Kay-Bee or TRU buying those consoles on launch date and loving them, but these kids don't have that but they do want to try the games that their fore-fathers had played. They don't care (well some) about the real hardware. If they can play it without the hassles of dealing with modern display problems and so on with a modern device that provides a perfect no lag experience they will most likely just go with that. We work so hard at using the real deal because we are nostalgic for it...at least I know that is why I do it. But our generation is getting older and older...and one day soon there will be nobody left that is actually nostalgic for these systems in the way that we are...sad to say.

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by eightbit

[Atlantis]

^sad in a way. Am 42 and grew up with borrowing a 2600 from my relative who got the system from a friend who owned him money. Later c64, nes, amiga, n64, then neogeo vintage from 2000 forward. Jag in 2014.

Thought about my collection, as lots of crap collecting dust. Sold it cheap to scalper who came and took all the shit i had and only own Neo, n64 and Jag today. Oldest son loves em.

when i die he Will have it, now in a descent amount of actually not drowning in 10 different systems. A nice well picked collection. Play what i own. 
so at least my son Will grov up on my vintage stuff, and is allready nostalgic about it. I tought him gaming with super burnout (hold B + left/right). Now he is really good at neo 1vs1 fighters pulling of magic stuff, what a thrill!!!

there is small future for our kind. Maybe the youngsters buying old school systems Will do the same? The collections Will be *somewhere* if not all people throw all of it when systems and carts are all dead.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Atlantis

[Keatah]

As Scotty might lament.. Synthetic consoles. Synthetic nostalgia.

[Keatah]

I'm really only nostalgic for the consoles and computers I actually had back in the day. The ones I got as gifts or purchased myself. Rightfully so. Consider..

 

I never owned a TG16, NES, SNES, PS1 and similar from that time range. So despite those being old-school I could never claim being nostalgic for them. Nor do I. My commentary on vintage systems I didn't own couldn't be considered valid. Too many missing nuances.

 

But the Apple II, Atari VCS, Intellivision, and others I did own - I am nostalgic for and can claim that right. And am fully qualified to discuss what it was like to use those back in the day.

 

And part of the experience was "purchase day". A day of discovery. Was never 100% sure what we'd bring home. Never quite knew if it'd be cool or not. Usually it was. And the un-cool cartridges contributed to filling up the shelves. Today though, re-acquiring old stuff through ebay doesn't capture the sense of adventure we had with a new console. The pre-purchase research is different or missing entirely. The anticipation of what it would be like is already filled in by youtube and comments of thousands of previous owners. The hope & surprises that a manufacturer would give us in the form of new catalogs with new games was absolutely thrilling. That's all missing today no matter how old a vintage system is. It's different!

 

And one more thing. There systems of yore were very different architecturally. The Apple II quite opposite the VCS. And both still different from Intellivision too. Their respective software libraries were very contrasting. And that added to the experience because we'd segue from one to the other.

 

It was all good. Any complaints we had were short lived and stemmed mostly from mis-understandings of our own making. Like when I discovered I needed an RF modulator for the Apple II. A story for another day.

 

That's the essence! That's the fun! Not this WATA Heritage bullshit - where you buy a rating only. A rating that someone says is expensive because they say so. Not intrinsically worth anything.

 

Have a Tualatin for sale for $49,000. Interested?

Edited December 16, 2021 by Keatah

[adamchevy]

I'm really only nostalgic for the consoles and computers I actually had back in the day. The ones I got as gifts or purchased myself. Rightfully so. Consider..

 

I never owned a TG16, NES, SNES, PS1 and similar from that time range. So despite those being old-school I could never claim being nostalgic for them. Nor do I. My commentary on vintage systems I didn't own couldn't be considered valid. Too many missing nuances.

 

But the Apple II, Atari VCS, Intellivision, and others I did own - I am nostalgic for and can claim that right. And am fully qualified to discuss what it was like to use those back in the day.

 

And part of the experience was "purchase day". A day of discovery. Was never 100% sure what we'd bring home. Never quite knew if it'd be cool or not. Usually it was. And the un-cool cartridges contributed to filling up the shelves. Today though, re-acquiring old stuff through ebay doesn't capture the sense of adventure we had with a new console. The pre-purchase research is different or missing entirely. The anticipation of what it would be like is already filled in by youtube and comments of thousands of previous owners. The hope & surprises that a manufacturer would give us in the form of new catalogs with new games was absolutely thrilling. That's all missing today no matter how old a vintage system is. It's different!

 

And one more thing. There systems of yore were very different architecturally. The Apple II quite opposite the VCS. And both still different from Intellivision too. Their respective software libraries were very contrasting. And that added to the experience because we'd segue from one to the other.

 

It was all good. Any complaints we had were short lived and stemmed mostly from mis-understandings of our own making. Like when I discovered I needed an RF modulator for the Apple II. A story for another day.

 

That's the essence! That's the fun! Not this WATA Heritage bullshit - where you buy a rating only. A rating that someone says is expensive because they say so. Not intrinsically worth anything.

 

Have a Tualatin for sale for $49,000. Interested?

I was only 1 years old when the Vectrex was released, but I’ve purchased a few of them once I discovered the Vectrex in 2014.

 

Now it’s my most loved and Nostalgic console besides the NES my parents purchased for me for Christmas in 1987 or 88.

 

I received my first computer in 1994, it was a packard bell. I’ve been emulating since I realized it was possible to do. You could say I have nostalgia for emulation.

[Keatah]

I have nostalgia for the first days of emulation. Not necessarily for any one single emulator. I might even encouraging sunsetting of the early emulators in favor of what we have today. And that's simply because of better fidelity. Better punch at delivering an experience of what the early systems were like. Who wouldn't want that? Can't imagine wanting a half-assed recreation as opposed to a full & accurate recreation.

 

[adamchevy]

I have nostalgia for the first days of emulation. Not necessarily for any one single emulator. I might even encouraging sunsetting of the early emulators in favor of what we have today. And that's simply because of better fidelity. Better punch at delivering an experience of what the early systems were like. Who wouldn't want that? Can't imagine wanting a half-assed recreation as opposed to a full & accurate recreation.
 

I agree. I’m in favor of newer emulators and of its progression. Emulation is at its core the evolution and progression of computer technology.