Battlemorph is criminally underrated

[phoboz]

I wonder why they used polygonal trees rather than scaled (tree) sprites?

The Jaguar is quite good at scaling sprites, so it would have been more efficient, and better looking.

Edited December 15, 2021 by phoboz

[agradeneu]

53 minutes ago, phoboz said:

I wonder why they used polygonal trees rather than scaled (tree) sprites?

The Jaguar is quite good at scaling sprites, so it would have been more efficient, and better looking.

The polygonal trees fit the gouraud shaded, rather geometric/abstract landscapes better IMO. Plus, you have no ugly pixelization of scaled sprites. They also tend to look flat.

I like the stylistic choice they made. 

 

[phoboz]

1 minute ago, agradeneu said:

The polygonal trees fit the gouraud shaded, rather geometric/abstract landscapes better IMO. Plus, you have no ugly pixelization of scaled sprites. They also tend to look flat.

I like the stylistic choice they made. 

 

Yes these trees are stylistic, I think I saw very similar trees in Air Cars as well. I guess if you can tilt the view along the x-axis, these pine trees wouldn't look correct as sprites (as this only works for games that rotate the view along the y-axis, e.g. Doom)

[agradeneu]

15 minutes ago, phoboz said:

Yes these trees are stylistic, I think I saw very similar trees in Air Cars as well. I guess if you can tilt the view along the x-axis, these pine trees wouldn't look correct as sprites (as this only works for games that rotate the view along the y-axis, e.g. Doom)

Plus they are destructable 3d objects - just like buildings! BTW I also like the 3D trees in Iron Soldier.

Edited December 15, 2021 by agradeneu

[KidGameR186496]

6 hours ago, agradeneu said:

Plus they are destructable 3d objects - just like buildings! BTW I also like the 3D trees in Iron Soldier.

Though the trees don't burst into flames when you shoot them like it happens with Phase Zero. Just sayin'

[agradeneu]

13 hours ago, KidGameR186496 said:

Though the trees don't burst into flames when you shoot them like it happens with Phase Zero. Just sayin'

Honestly, I dont like the effect in PZ, it clutters the screen and makes not much sense for the gameplay. Since I know someting about sprite animation - well it's basically a new sprite animation replacing a sprite. 

Generally, the engines cant be compared, PZ is some sort of pixel height engine with all objects being sprites, one can argue it's more pseudo 3D.  

Edited December 16, 2021 by agradeneu

[phoboz]

The biggest disadvantage of Battlemorph is that it is a CD game. The Jaguar CD is both very rare, and also from what I have heard extremely unreliable. I like the music on the levels, and if that music could be replicated as mod music it would be much better if this was a cartridge game. The cut scenes I could live without.

Edited December 16, 2021 by phoboz

[+LS650]

11 minutes ago, phoboz said:

The biggest disadvantage of Battlemorph is that it is a CD game. The Jaguar CD is both very rare, and also from what I have heard extremely unreliable. I like the music on the levels, and if that music could be replicated as mod music it would be much better if this was a cartridge game. The cut scenes I could live without.

I have thought that if Songbird was selling the reprint of the game with a MicroSD for the JagGD, I would have been willing to buy a copy.

I don't have a JagCD, so the reprint didn't interest as is...

[Editorb]

1 hour ago, ls650 said:

I have thought that if Songbird was selling the reprint of the game with a MicroSD for the JagGD, I would have been willing to buy a copy.

I don't have a JagCD, so the reprint didn't interest as is...

Songbird asked for feedback on format. I let them know I would buy on day one if cart ever released.

 

https://songbird-productions.com/2020/07/28/battlemorph-for-the-jaguar/

[MikeA]

On 12/13/2021 at 3:24 PM, KidGameR186496 said:

That's actually one of the reasons why I dug up all of those Jaguar reviews back when I started at Wikipedia in 2017, to show that not all Jaguar games were derided by critics back in the 90s.

Guess all I remembered was the negative GamePro review.  Wikipedia does indeed show lots of positive reviews.  Glad to hear this game is and was beloved by many.

[Pete5125]

On 12/10/2021 at 4:42 PM, Editorb said:

At the time, I considered $150 for Jag CD to be throwing good money after bad, and thus never got to enjoy its vast library.

 

Turns out buying a pallet of them at 10 bucks each would have been a sound investment even after storage costs.

I truely think your underestimated storage cost, to sit on them for 20 years, with inflation probably not getting the return on investment you imagine.

 

[+swlovinist]

On 12/16/2021 at 10:45 AM, phoboz said:

The biggest disadvantage of Battlemorph is that it is a CD game. The Jaguar CD is both very rare, and also from what I have heard extremely unreliable. I like the music on the levels, and if that music could be replicated as mod music it would be much better if this was a cartridge game. The cut scenes I could live without.

^^This^^

 

As a big fan of Cybermorph, I thought that Battlemorph was even better.   Agree that the hardware add on that this game came out on is the reason why you do not hear about it more.    

[Editorb]

3 hours ago, Pete5125 said:

I truely think your underestimated storage cost, to sit on them for 20 years, with inflation probably not getting the return on investment you imagine.

 

Certainly could be true. On other foot, I live in Midwest where space is generally not a problem.

 

Some quick back of the iMac calculations:

 

I dunno how many Jag CDs on a pallet. I'll just say I procured a gross.

 

144 systems at 10 bucks a pop=1,440.

 

I could probably stash them at friend or family dwelling, but so as not to impose, I'll do storage at 50 bucks a month.

 

And, woof, yeah, that's $15,000 in storage for 25 years.

 

Howbeit, pricecharting lists new CDs at $1,695 a pop times 144=$244,080.

 

Purchase price of $1,440 is $2,550.24 adjusted for inflation.

 

Total purchase plus storage (I didn't bother adjusting storage for inflation; this is getting complicated)=$17,550.24

 

Net profit $226,529.76.*

 

*MINUS COST OF TIME MACHINE=∞

[tripled79]

On 12/16/2021 at 12:45 PM, phoboz said:

The biggest disadvantage of Battlemorph is that it is a CD game. The Jaguar CD is both very rare, and also from what I have heard extremely unreliable. I like the music on the levels, and if that music could be replicated as mod music it would be much better if this was a cartridge game. The cut scenes I could live without.

I cannot live without my Sean Connery narration on the FMV cut scenes!

[Shaggy the Atarian]

On 12/9/2021 at 12:45 PM, JagChris said:

Battlemorph was innovative and extremely lazy at the same time. And bizarre. My friends thought it was weird.

 

I think @Lost Dragon said they even admitted to phoning it in on this one.

IIRC, back when JaySmith was releasing all of the betas on the Jaguar Extremist packs, he came across a beta build of the game that was either six weeks or six months (can't remember which) apart from the final build of the game. He played and played it and could not find a single difference, but I remember him being somewhat shocked how long it was sat on and ready to go. Although I wonder how much the JagCD's launch date might have played into that.

 

That said, there were a lot of levels and the missions, while nothing innovative, were far more exciting than "collect the pods, find the exit x50"

 

I think that the game is rather beloved within the Jag community, I can't really recall anyone ever trashing it (CM on the other hand, plenty of stuff to bash about there). It improved on CM in every way possible, and it's one game that played through a few times to completion. But it's so obscure within the wider classic gaming community that it feels underrated. While the PSX and Saturn were pulling off full 3D texture mapped games, it almost seemed like BM was the best the Jag could manage and that was embarrassing in comparison.

 

Every time I see someone take an N64 game and recreate it in Unreal Engine though, I think "I wonder what BattleMorph would look like if that were done," but if someone actually took the time to do such a thing and released it, most gamers would be saying "wut?"

[JagChris]

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

IIRC, back when JaySmith was releasing all of the betas on the Jaguar Extremist packs, he came across a beta build of the game that was either six weeks or six months (can't remember which) apart from the final build of the game. He played and played it and could not find a single difference, but I remember him being somewhat shocked how long it was sat on and ready to go. Although I wonder how much the JagCD's launch date might have played into that.

 

That said, there were a lot of levels and the missions, while nothing innovative, were far more exciting than "collect the pods, find the exit x50"

 

I think that the game is rather beloved within the Jag community, I can't really recall anyone ever trashing it (CM on the other hand, plenty of stuff to bash about there). It improved on CM in every way possible, and it's one game that played through a few times to completion. But it's so obscure within the wider classic gaming community that it feels underrated. While the PSX and Saturn were pulling off full 3D texture mapped games, it almost seemed like BM was the best the Jag could manage and that was embarrassing in comparison.

 

I'm not referring to it being just gouraud shaded polygon's. That's fine. It was the weirdness.

 

The sizes were all out of proportion. The batteries were giant Duracell. The power lines were just squares. The fish were as big as the subs. What was the bonk enemy on the head homing missile about? Bizarre. 

 

The art direction was kinda sloppy to me. Weird to my friends. One described it as someone taking shrooms and then making a video game.

 

[agradeneu]

2 hours ago, JagChris said:

 

 

 

The sizes were all out of proportion. The batteries were giant Duracell. The power lines were just squares. The fish were as big as the subs. What was the bonk enemy on the head homing missile about? Bizarre. 

 

The art direction was kinda sloppy to me. 

 

 

I disagree on that sentiment - video games are mostly fantasy and graphics are often based on symbolic meanings. A good example are the mushrooms and coins of Super Mario which are "out of proportion" in relation to the Mario character. But that is not "sloppy" art direction, it's actually GOOD art direction. 

 

Regarding Battlemorph, when watching bitjags yt stream I realized that it really aged quite well and is still a great game.

It looks clean and has nice colors. Nothing embarassing here. It looks better to me than that crude Tomb Raider port.

And the gameplay is really there. It's still fun to play and very cleverly designed.

 

 

[jerseystyle]

IMO the only thing holding Battlemorph back is it’s nearly impossible to play these days. When it came out THAT was the game I used to show off the JagCD to my friends whilst in college. I think it holds up really well and would love the chance to play through it again.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

On 12/29/2021 at 11:59 PM, JagChris said:

 

I'm not referring to it being just gouraud shaded polygon's. That's fine. It was the weirdness.

 

The sizes were all out of proportion. The batteries were giant Duracell. The power lines were just squares. The fish were as big as the subs. What was the bonk enemy on the head homing missile about? Bizarre. 

 

The art direction was kinda sloppy to me. Weird to my friends. One described it as someone taking shrooms and then making a video game.

 

You might recall it was one of the guys at Gamefan who really was on LSD when reviewing CyberMorph

 

I don't know if you would call it lazy or just the guys at ATD having some fun with it. I liked that they had the "Funny Mode" cheat in there too. No need for games to be deathly serious all the time - I'm playing games as an escape anyways. 

 

Along that line, I didn't mind the weird worlds of both CM & BM, that gave it a unique charm. Why are there building on steep slopes near a lake? I dunno, but it's fun to blow them up. They probably could have done better on that and things like the effect when trees are destroyed, but overall, when I play either game, it feels like I'm on a strange alien world, just with Discount Sean Connery guiding me along  I also appreciated stuff like the different types of water and their varied effects. Yeah, it would have been better if it featured fully textured 3D worlds, then maybe that would have helped the art direction, but we would have needed the Jaguar 2 for that. 

 

 

 

But did it feel lazy? I don't think so. Given that you had all of these new elements - different types of water with 

[JagChris]

I think even ATD said they were phoning things in around that point getting ready to jump ship for PSX land.

 

It didn't need texture mapped everything. I think it just needed more care. It's not a bad game. It's mediocre. For me it's only memorable for being bizarre. 

[agradeneu]

14 hours ago, JagChris said:

I think even ATD said they were phoning things in around that point getting ready to jump ship for PSX land.

 

It didn't need texture mapped everything. I think it just needed more care. It's not a bad game. It's mediocre. For me it's only memorable for being bizarre. 

This might be true for Blue Lightning CD. It's quite the opposite of BM.

 

 

[alucardX]

On 12/30/2021 at 1:32 AM, agradeneu said:

 

I disagree on that sentiment - video games are mostly fantasy and graphics are often based on symbolic meanings. A good example are the mushrooms and coins of Super Mario which are "out of proportion" in relation to the Mario character. But that is not "sloppy" art direction, it's actually GOOD art direction. 

 

Regarding Battlemorph, when watching bitjags yt stream I realized that it really aged quite well and is still a great game.

It looks clean and has nice colors. Nothing embarassing here. It looks better to me than that crude Tomb Raider port.

And the gameplay is really there. It's still fun to play and very cleverly designed.

 

 

This may sounds stupid but maybe someone knows the answer. Or, maybe my assumption will be correct. Do the tunnel areas look so good just because they are purposely drawing a limited area at a time? There is a lot of texturing going on there and it runs great and looks pretty good. What's the story on this? Is there more to it than just being a simpler environment to render?

[ZylonBane]

Everything on the screen takes time to draw. Fewer things to draw = faster frame rate. It's not exactly a deep mystery.

[agradeneu]

7 hours ago, ZylonBane said:

Everything on the screen takes time to draw. Fewer things to draw = faster frame rate. It's not exactly a deep mystery.

Right. However that's just 1 bottleneck IMO. 

[doctor_shred]

I remember showing Battlemorph on my Jag CD to a Playstation owning friend back in the 90's.  He was freaked out by how weird it was and stopped playing after 10 minutes.  He was more impressed with Space Ace!?!? 

 

BM is still one of my favourite Jag games.  If it had been released on other systems it may have sold reasonably well.  If Jag GD CD emulation becomes more stable I would love to see a legit SD card release by Songbird.  I'd buy the game again.