Lostdragon Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Helper said: Starfighter was pretty bad ass - I had a 3D0 back in the day and this was definitely one of the best for it. I probably played just as much Battlemorph as I played this game though - even though they are similar they really feel like 2 different games. Great to see the love ? It got mauled by some of the key UK Press, but I got far more enjoyment out of it then I did many other nicer looking titles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, agradeneu said: It's an utterly irrelevant information. As is your talk of being a games designer and artist, unless you yourself worked on Battlemorph with ATD, which unless i am mistaken, you didn't. Any personal experience you had with your own titles (you've not listed anything, so I have no idea if your work lay within the commercial development sector back then or on today's platforms or indie work) can only relate to those titles. If you weren't an artist or designer on Battlemorph, you don't know what ATD wanted from the game, nor what Atari wanted or what they agreed on. All we do have to go on, is claims from ATD staff Sam Tramiel wanted it to look like a 3D0 title, lots of texture mapping and ATD saying they reached the compromise, they used it sparingly. Nobody has talked about the actual design work which went into craft design, weapons, environments etc, why they settled on certain looks, what effect they were aiming for. So welcome to the discussions and speculations like the rest of us. If you do have any insights from ATD or Atari playtester reports on Battlemorph to share with us, please put them up so we as a community can have a greater understanding of it's background. Edited January 9, 2022 by Lostdragon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, agradeneu said: "Phoned in" is strictly what you read into this.... Contract obligations does not mean the designers did not care. They made a very good job with BM. The game is one of the best Jag games for many fans and I am not sugarcoating anything. So, if that game was "phoned in", what was Supercross 3D or a dozen of other titles? I stated the point about Supercross before but happy to do so again I would love someone like Arcade Attack to interview any of the Supercross team, just to try and discover who had the game texture mapped. All I have ever seen is Missile Command Coder Martin B. making the accusation it was Leonard Tramiel and then someone on YT making the claim it was actually one of the Tiertex bosses. Years ago we tried reaching out to the Tiertex bosses, but got nowhere. So until someone manages to reach anyone from the development team, very little is going to be known regarding Supercross. As each year passes, chances of getting new insights on any commercial Jaguar title fades further still. Edited January 9, 2022 by Lostdragon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Lostdragon said: As is your talk of being a games designer and artist, unless you yourself worked on Battlemorph with ATD, which unless i am mistaken, you didn't. Any personal experience you had with your own titles (you've not listed anything, so I have no idea if your work lay within the commercial development sector back then or on today's platforms or indie work) can only relate to those titles. If you weren't an artist or designer on Battlemorph, you don't know what ATD wanted from the game, nor what Atari wanted or what they agreed on. All we do have to go on, is claims from ATD staff Sam Tramiel wanted it to look like a 3D0 title, lots of texture mapping and ATD saying they reached the compromise, they used it sparingly. Nobody has talked about the actual design work which went into craft design, weapons, environments etc, why they settled on certain looks, what effect they were aiming for. So welcome to the discussions and speculations like the rest of us. If you do have any insights from ATD or Atari playtester reports on Battlemorph to share with us, please put them up so we as a community can have a greater understanding of it's background. Iam no longer answering your bullshit... You know extactly which games I worked on. Everyone can look my profile. You did NOTHING. ZERO. End of discussion. All you do is compiling infos from the internet and copy and paste the same overly long wall of texts again and again, whenever you see an opportunity. Pointless. Edited January 9, 2022 by agradeneu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helper Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 23 minutes ago, Lostdragon said: Great to see the love ? It got mauled by some of the key UK Press, but I got far more enjoyment out of it then I did many other nicer looking titles. I cannot believe some game Starfighter a 25 - utterly ridiculous. Starfighter was a technical marvel compared to what was available at the time. Were you involved in developing Starfighter - if so Bravo - great game! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, agradeneu said: Iam no longer answering your bullshit... You know extactly which games I worked on. Everyone can look my profile. You did NOTHING. ZERO. End of discussion. All you do is compiling infos from the internet and copy and paste the same overly long wall of texts again and again, whenever you see an opportunity. Pointless. Your profile doesn't state anything except your interests. You presented yourself as an artist and designer, yet expect everyone to either be aware of your works or run of and investigate. You want a pissing contest or appreciation for your work? Rattle someone else's cage. I've invested enough of my time over the years talking to commercial A8, ST, Panther and Jaguar developers, sharing UK Press, donating Atari Corp documents to preservation sites and more besides. Your arrogance to say i did nothing, all I do is copy and is simply the result of your ego and highlights just how small minded your thinking is. I have absolutely no idea what you worked on, it clearly wasn't Battlemorph. Calm yourself down, grow up and try and accept that you simply took a throwaway comment by JagChris at face value and now resort to a tantrum. Edited January 9, 2022 by Lostdragon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Helper said: I cannot believe some game Starfighter a 25 - utterly ridiculous. Starfighter was a technical marvel compared to what was available at the time. Were you involved in developing Starfighter - if so Bravo - great game! The UK games press had become very era of the Graphics Tarts culture at this stage. Sadly C+VG had fallen foul to it and it was a mere shadow of itself. Maximum compared it with Namco's Ace/Air Combat at review, something of an odd comparison,but the library was still relatively small Just a huge fan of the game and the genre on any system and someone who would of loved to see a Making Of... done if possible. Edited January 9, 2022 by Lostdragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 8 hours ago, agradeneu said: You missed the point! You can think of the game as you want, but the discussion was about allegations made by Jagchris and LostDragon about the development of the game which hold no water IMO. I have expierience as a game designer and artist, I make my judgement based on that. Besides that, my preference is strictly personal, yes. In the Odynexus on the Lynx thread that you were an artist on someone stated the frame rate was dropping too much for a game like that and you immediately jumped to it's defense. Then the actual programmer chimed in agreeing with the criticism. Your experience in game design seems to not lend you any more credibility than anyone else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 9 hours ago, agradeneu said: JagChris completely overrates the capabilities of the Jaguar, which is the only reason he thinks devs "phoned" it in. Yeah it's totally beyond the Jag abilities to have done something different with those power lines. Like make them diamond shaped rather than squares Or put some kind of electrical bit map in there that would have looked cooler zipping by. Maybe even lit up a little. Also beyond it's abilities is for the ship to shoot anything but orange colored tennis balls. None of my friends liked Battlemorph. Most of them like Cybermorph. One even played it all the way through it. But none of them that weren't jag fans liked Battle Morph. Similar with the previous poster. Other games you sighted as surreal were popular games. People didn't run away from them. Or guess that the developers were frying balls then decided to make a video game. Something about that level of surreal turned them off. As if that level of surreal by design came from carelessness rather than thoughtfulness. These views are all opinions just like yours. It doesn't take anything away if you personally think the design is brilliant. Enjoy it. Maybe they really did put tons of thought into it but missed the mark in the view of some. And nailed it to others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 27 minutes ago, JagChris said: In the Odynexus on the Lynx thread that you were an artist on someone stated the frame rate was dropping too much for a game like that and you immediately jumped to it's defense. Then the actual programmer chimed in agreeing with the criticism. Your experience in game design seems to not lend you any more credibility than anyone else. I saw Odynexus and Kings Of Edom, had to look both up on YT, as I have never followed the Jaguar or Lynx Homebrew scene that closely for the first time today, having looked into these titles I was supposed to be all too aware of. I was reminded of his work on Gravitic Mines, a game i hadn't visited since I praised the team for bringing it to the Jaguar Community, they are indeed in for a real treat, it looks fantastic. But for all his work (and I saw him talk of cutting his teeth on Fight For Life, but I couldn't find out to what extent he had been involved), it didn't give him the right to act like in such a manner, be abusive and to belittle what others bring to the community. No, we don't all design, code, follow the Homebrew scene as we are after full collections. Some of us have invested hours of their spare time reaching out to commercial Jaguar developers, trying to provide the community with as much insight as people are willing to give, to ensure documents are put into the hands of respectable archive sites like Atarimania and GTW. We just do what we can to ensure the community has the best amount of reference material, should it ever be needed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, JagChris said: Yeah it's totally beyond the Jag abilities to have done something different with those power lines. Like make them diamond shaped rather than squares Or put some kind of electrical bit map in there that would have looked cooler zipping by. Maybe even lit up a little. Also beyond it's abilities is for the ship to shoot anything but orange colored tennis balls. None of my friends liked Battlemorph. Most of them like Cybermorph. One even played it all the way through it. But none of them that weren't jag fans liked Battle Morph. Similar with the previous poster. Other games you sighted as surreal were popular games. People didn't run away from them. Or guess that the developers were frying balls then decided to make a video game. Something about that level of surreal turned them off. As if that level of surreal by design came from carelessness rather than thoughtfulness. These views are all opinions just like yours. It doesn't take anything away if you personally think the design is brilliant. Enjoy it. Maybe they really did put tons of thought into it but missed the mark in the view of some. And nailed it to others. One person is credited for the work on the 3D models for Starglider 2 and he's the same person who worked on the surreal Interphase on the ST and Amiga Danny Emmett Yet Battlesphere had the talents of: Joanne Surman, David West, Ian G. Harling, according to the credits. I appreciate the imagination and flair that Danny put into his games, more than what the ATD team did with Battlemorph. Maybe it was a case of too many cooks with Battlemorph, vs one person's vision? Whatever the root cause, myself and others came away unimpressed with the art direction something we hoped would of been improved on, after it was a point of critiscm for Cybermorph. But isn't art supposed to be objective? Edited January 10, 2022 by Lostdragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I like that wireframe level with the pulses going down the lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 14 hours ago, Lostdragon said: Your profile doesn't state anything except your interests. .... had to click on the "About me" not to throw gasoline on that fire but on that front his profile does state what he worked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Havoc 2049 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Battlemorph is a great game for the Jaguar. Definitely in the Top 10 and personally in my Top 5 on the Jag. I enjoyed Cybermorph and Battlemorph improved on it in every way. Battlemorph has more varied missions, better draw distance, skybox backgrounds, in game music, better graphics, underwater segments and the underground segments. It all added up to a solid game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Yes BM is a new era game in line with the future of kinder games rewarding your progress while Cyber is an old sadist still mixing the points chase/high score list into the formula. I prefer BM over CM. then again, do you like it harsh retro maybe you prefer Cyber or ANy other arcade like Jag title…? It is hard for me to dislike Jag games due to the high charm lever and the sympathy for an underdog fighting the giants of Sony and Nintendo pushing their gold treasures to new future landmarks. Hell, I enjoy all of 90s gaming, an insane and intresting era. Win95 didnt help Atari either. Doomed but with cool retro thinking trying to work with the new ideas of gaming. A hybrid beast. Unique to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Different people have different opinions on how good a game is, who knew? ?? 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 ^ thank you for your klick bait bully cheap point contribution?? Or? yes assholes, opinions, that is exacly what we discuss here when it comes to a certain game in mind. If you dislike this discussion please avoid and klick other thread. Or if you like cold objectivism and want to avoid subjectivism there are several tech subforums you can enter and also fart in, of you dare. I sure dont, and stay here in public domain. this is the place of public opinions, yes, exchange of voodoo ish jibberish as entertainment. Kill an hour. yes we all have an asshole and an opinion… I prefer to use my opinion…. But sometime its hard here, by some reason. by the way, you are a funny guy. Welcome, tell us your opinion on the game. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Atlantis said: ^ thank you for your klick bait bully cheap point contribution?? Or? Wow, did I strike a nerve? You seem to have taken a simple light hearted joking comment way too seriously or read way to much into it but that is typical of you. No one else seemed triggered by it and seem to have taken it the way it was intended. Carry on, try not to have a heart attack from stress in the meantime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseystyle Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Atlantis said: ^ thank you for your klick bait bully cheap point contribution?? Or? yes assholes, opinions, that is exacly what we discuss here when it comes to a certain game in mind. If you dislike this discussion please avoid and klick other thread. Or if you like cold objectivism and want to avoid subjectivism there are several tech subforums you can enter and also fart in, of you dare. I sure dont, and stay here in public domain. this is the place of public opinions, yes, exchange of voodoo ish jibberish as entertainment. Kill an hour. yes we all have an asshole and an opinion… I prefer to use my opinion…. But sometime its hard here, by some reason. by the way, you are a funny guy. Welcome, tell us your opinion on the game. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, OldSchoolRetroGamer said: Wow, did I strike a nerve? You seem to have taken a simple light hearted joking comment way too seriously or read way to much into it but that is typical of you. No one else seemed triggered by it and seem to have taken it the way it was intended. Carry on, try not to have a heart attack from stress in the meantime. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/9/2022 at 8:33 AM, Lostdragon said: Blast Chamber did very little for me, Whaaaa?? The Cybermorph people made Blast Chamber? That is one of the great multiplayer games of all time. Four player is an amazing experience everyone should get to try. It’s in my top 10 Playstation games for sure, even if it’s hard to get others to play it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 36 minutes ago, jgkspsx said: Whaaaa?? The Cybermorph people made Blast Chamber? That is one of the great multiplayer games of all time. Four player is an amazing experience everyone should get to try. It’s in my top 10 Playstation games for sure, even if it’s hard to get others to play it. Looks like ATD had expanded, team size wise by the time they moved into PlayStation development, credits for it show: ATD Team Project Management: Chris Gibbs Technical Management: Robert Gill Conversion Programming: Jim Williams, Peter Long Based on original code by: Steve Bennett, Julian Thomas, Andrew Wright Additional Programming: Andrew Holtom Artwork: Jon Baker, Tony Heap Music: Will Davis Effects: Will Davis Original Idea: Andy Howe Chamber Design: Jim McPhail, Stuart Tilley Special Thanks: Scott Lahman Looks like the game could be another potentially criminally underrated contender, UK Press were harsh on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 It seems pretty reviled by critics, but they’re simply wrong. Here is a review that understands the glory of the multiplayer experience: https://michaelbridgett.medium.com/retro-games-revival-blast-chamber-misery-loves-exploding-72774fc7e37 The single player puzzle mode was pretty good too. When I slimmed down my Playstation collection to only twenty titles Blast Chamber was one of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 On 1/7/2022 at 7:18 PM, ZylonBane said: Everything on the screen takes time to draw. Fewer things to draw = faster frame rate. It's not exactly a deep mystery. I assumed that was the case but thought it worth asking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 So... This is a tiny taste of the Jaguar Forums I've heard so much about? Well, If ya need me, I'll be in a different forum... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.