ATR-8000 3.5 inch drive

[Gitbizy]

I just hooked up my atr-8000 setup- 2 drives with 3.5 inch as 1 and 5.25 as 2.  These are both in an external case and worked many years ago but they have been in clean storage for years.

 

my 130xe won’t read from either drive.

 

going to start tomorrow by methodically popping off and back in all the chips.  Then cleaning the connectors with IPA.

 

Are the 3.5” disks that are made with Mydos and the atr8000 compatible with zaxon’s xf551 3.5” drive??

 

Since every disc I’ve tried from my archives still works, I have to guess that it’s a hardware problem between the atr8000 and the external floppy.

 

Is there any way to read those discs in a PC (without one of the flux readers)…?  I have data/documents and old code id like to transfer to SD (eventually)

 

any suggestions on getting the atr back to life and reading disks?

Edited December 17, 2021 by Gitbizy

[_The Doctor__]

If you say the disks work, I don't get the question...

make sure you have connect the ribbon cables incorrectly, make sure the pin 1 indicators on the connectors, ribbons, and the card edges line up and are correct...

Are you booting the correct atr8000 disk to start everything up?

[Gitbizy]

To clarify, I literally have hundreds and hundreds of 3.5 disks from that era (all ST ones) and they work fine on the ST.

 

around 1992 I copied docs and my own progs from 1980 era 5.25 disks to the 3.5 disks using my Atr8000 and the 3.5 attached to it.  These are the disks that I want to recover data from. I highly doubt they’re corrupt.

so I have about 24 3.5 inch disks that were created using the ATR8000 with the 3.5 drive.

 

I tried booting with a 3.5 Mydos 4.5 - won’t read, then I booted my 1050 happy and used Mydos 4.5 from a 5.25 and it boots from the happy but again won’t read from the atr.

 

the atr and external drives were stored and are very clean but I plan on giving the ATR a good cleaning later today.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Gitbizy

[Gitbizy]

this is the power up sequence I’m using 

please correct me if wrong

 

power up enclosure with the 3.5 and 5.25 drives 

power on the atr

as soon as I do this both drive lights blink momentarily 

power on the 130xe

 

At this point it won’t read the disks nor does the “read” light turn on indicating its trying to read.

 

I tried using Mydos 4.5 in the 3.5 and the 5.25  And neither will read.

 

I also hooked my 1050 into the second port on the atr - and the 1050 will boot up Mydos just fine.

 

but Mydos doesn’t show any drives other than d1 which is the 1050 happy 

 

is there something I’m missing to get the atr to use the drives attached to the floppy port?  It’s been 30 years since I’ve played with this 

 

at the top of Mydos it only shows 1d - no other drive letters

Edited December 17, 2021 by Gitbizy

[TGB1718]

I didn't use my 3 1/2" ST drive for many years and in spite of them being in a clean environment, I couldn't get

either of my ST's to read any floppy's and I had about 6 drives to choose, all it took was a thorough cleaning of

the heads, I mean really thorough, I guess a film builds up on the heads from whatever is in the air over the years

I must have cleaned each drive about 3 times before they started working and now they all work just fine.

 

I know it's hard to clean 3 1/2" drives without one of those cleaning disks especially the top head

[+kheller2]

The floppy drive light on the atr floppy units are not flashing when powering on the Xe therefore the XE doesn’t see the drives. We need to fix that first (before head cleaning) and get the xe to see the atr.   

[Gitbizy]

44 minutes ago, kheller2 said:

The floppy drive light on the atr floppy units are not flashing when powering on the Xe therefore the XE doesn’t see the drives. We need to fix that first (before head cleaning) and get the xe to see the atr.   

Cleaned the ATR-8000, reseated all the chips.  No difference. In doing this I think my ribbon cable could potentially be an issue.

 

When I power the ATR the read/activity light flashes for a split second on both drives at the same time.  but still gets read timeouts.

 

I am presuming that I need a 34 pin Female (drive side) to the 34 pin edge connector, correct?  Just a standard cable?

 

the SIO cable gets plugged into the SIO connector closest to the reset button, correct?

 

I only want to hook up the 3.5 drive.  will a twisted floppy cable work?

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Gitbizy

[moonlight_mile]

Make sure you don’t have anything between the atr and the 13o. I have the same setup and it would be a bit flaky if the atr was not the first thing connected to the computer.

[Gitbizy]

2 minutes ago, moonlight_mile said:

Make sure you don’t have anything between the atr and the 13o. I have the same setup and it would be a bit flaky if the atr was not the first thing connected to the computer.

I don't - just the SIO cable between the 130 and the "computer in" port next to the reset button on the ATR.

[moonlight_mile]

1 minute ago, Gitbizy said:

I don't - just the SIO cable between the 130 and the "computer in" port next to the reset button on the ATR.

Gotcha. Well if the ribbon cable isn’t the culprit it could be the drive chip. I think it is the 1797. I went through about 5-6 until I found a good one. Some were doa, 1 would only work in Atari mode (no CP/M), another would only work in single density mode, etc. 

[Gitbizy]

1 hour ago, moonlight_mile said:

Gotcha. Well if the ribbon cable isn’t the culprit it could be the drive chip. I think it is the 1797. I went through about 5-6 until I found a good one. Some were doa, 1 would only work in Atari mode (no CP/M), another would only work in single density mode, etc. 

 

what symptom was leading you towards the FD1797 as the culprit?  

 

[+kheller2]

can you get into CPM mode?  Any way to download a driver or something just to make sure the ATR8000 is communicating and working on a basic level with the 130

 

[moonlight_mile]

1 hour ago, Gitbizy said:

 

what symptom was leading you towards the FD1797 as the culprit?  

 

I honestly don’t remember. I got a lot of help from here. But what ended up happening is I order replacements of all  or most of the socketed chips until I hit the 1797. 
 

It took me a while to figure out the 1797 was ultimately the weak link. I didn’t verify that until I ended up getting a second atr that worked right from the get go. 
 

search for the atr thread. There are a lot of great suggestions in that thread. 
 

From the start I got no activity from the drives when I fired up the atr. 
 

Also I think Jeff Worley suggested that I do something in a term program to see if the atr was communicating. I can’t remember what that was but it is definitely in that thread. 

[moonlight_mile]

Here are the instructions Jeff sent me a few years ago:

 

Load the AT_rs232 program then load a terminal program with settings 9600bps 8 bits no parity.  Reset the ATR8000 and you should get a # prompt from the ATR if it is working to that degree at least - might have to hit RETURN to get the prompt..  You can examine memory from there and do a couple of other primitive things.  That is the ATRMON monitor program it has in ROM.  My thinking is that you can verify portions of the machine that are not disk related, to narrow your problem down.

 

(I was using Sparta dos when attempting this)

[_The Doctor__]

using the swp atr8000 disks will get you a terminal as well... it's the native term type for it and will best serve our needs

[a8isa1]

1 hour ago, kheller2 said:

can you get into CPM mode?  Any way to download a driver or something just to make sure the ATR8000 is communicating and working on a basic level with the 130

 

One of the ATR8000's basic functions is to be a print spooler.  If you type LPRINT in BASIC and don't get an error then the spooler is running.  At least the ROM, RAM, and Z80 are all good.

[Gitbizy]

Can you all pretend like I haven't tried to get the ATR-8000 into CPM mode since 1984 LOL.

 

I need baby steps .... YIKES.

 

 

I haven't found an ATR-8000 disk in my collection so those may have been lost.

 

Do I have to hook up something to the RS232 port to test RS232??

 

AS far as the basic LPRINT test.

 

I hooked up the 130XE to the ATR.  Powered on both.  (left HD cable off the ATR)

 

I hear a "brrrrrrrrrrr" sound 

 

On the 130XE at the READY prompt, I typed in LPRINT

 

I heard a short "brr" then it returned to READY.

 

 

 

[Gitbizy]

Note:  this is the exact same sound that happens when I try to boot from a 3.5" or 5.25" disk in the external enclosures when Attached to the ATR.

 

that same long "BRRRRRRRRR" sound on power-up

 

When I hook up my 1050, it boots just fine.

 

[Gitbizy]

I did find a disk labeled SWP software.   Please advise as to how to do further tests with the ATR

 

[moonlight_mile]

You don’t need anything plugged into the rs232 just to load the handler then enter a term and see if there is activity. 
 

Like the doctor mention there is an easier way to accomplish this but above is how I did it. 

[Kyle22]

If you swap the FDC chip you must re-tune the variable caps and the pots. This is true on 1050, Indus, etc. ATR-8000 must be the same. Alignment disk and software required.

You can try doing it by feel. Tune a variable cap until it reads. Next turn more until it stops reading. Now, turn it back to the middle of those 2 points.

Same with the pots.

Good Luck.

 

[Gitbizy]

@Kyle22 I’m not at that point yet… I can’t even get a disk to read at all through the ATR

 

 

[moonlight_mile]

12 hours ago, Kyle22 said:

If you swap the FDC chip you must re-tune the variable caps and the pots. This is true on 1050, Indus, etc. ATR-8000 must be the same. Alignment disk and software required.

You can try doing it by feel. Tune a variable cap until it reads. Next turn more until it stops reading. Now, turn it back to the middle of those 2 points.

Same with the pots.

Good Luck.

 

Hey Kyle,
   Now that you mention this. I have a Teac 80track 5.25 that used to work. I tested it on my Percom At-88. But a year or so later when I got an rfd-4x and atr it won’t read anything. 

Do you know what cap I would adjust to see if I can bring this back to life?

[_The Doctor__]

you didn't swap the chip so I wouldn't fiddle with the drive... the controller chip swap requires an adjustment on the devices that don't handle it for themselves.

if you have a scope and the drive and the service manual, I suspect c20 and those that look like it is where to start..

that being said...

I suspect a configuration issue of the drive over such other adjustments

Edited December 18, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[Gitbizy]

question for you all- being that I cannot remember how to use the ATR-8000.  

I was only using the ATR for the external drives.

 

I have mydos 4.51 and soon will be using a much more modern DOS soon (ordered SIDE3).  all of the disks (3.5 and 5.25) that I created on the ATR were done in 92-93 on Mydos 4.51.

 

 

Do I have to do any configuration with MYDOS to make the ATR "recognize" the external drives, or should it just automatically work, without any configuration in Mydos?

 

Second question.

Does anyone know what "disk format" the 3.5" disks under ATR-8000 would be using?  Eg tracks/sectors/bytes?

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Gitbizy