ATR-8000 3.5 inch drive

[_The Doctor__]

ok, maybe this will help... make sure the sio cord is good and the atr jumper blocks are set accordingly, it can operate in rs232 terminal mode... as in a dumb terminal connect to the atr 8000's rs232 port... and it can operate VIA sio port to the Atari.

next, in order for the 8000 to do it's thing... the disk must be a valid bootable disk... you turn on the ATR8000 the connected floppy drive spin a few seconds... you put that bootable disk in the DRIVE A, you then hold option down on your Atari XL/XE or start your 800 without basic etc.

The disk should boot...

If it does not, are the drive configured properly and is the floppy chain terminated? (resistor pack on floppy/or end of ribbon?)

 

Trouble shooting, you can use atrmon and issue...

B and then the return key... that tells the ATR8000 to boot it's disk (usually to boot cp/m)

 

archive.org has all of this information last I knew... I will check

 

[_The Doctor__]

https://archive.org/details/atr8000/atr8000

https://archive.org/details/VariousATR8000Information

https://ia801803.us.archive.org/26/items/rearc_atr-8000-owners-manual-ver.-2-1982-swp-inc-us/ATR-8000 Owners Manual Ver. 2 (1982)(SWP Inc.)(US)_text.pdf

 

[sup8pdct]

The ATR8000 double sided sector numbering is different to the XF551. Side 1 is the same. Side 2 on the XF steps from the inner most track back to outermost. the ATR on side 2 steps from outermost to innermost.

IE sector 721 of XF DSDD 360K disk is on side 2 track 40, sector 18

same sector number on ATR is side 2 track 1 sector 1.

 

James

[_The Doctor__]

13 minutes ago, sup8pdct said:

The ATR8000 double sided sector numbering is different to the XF551. Side 1 is the same. Side 2 on the XF steps from the inner most track back to outermost. the ATR on side 2 steps from outermost to innermost.

IE sector 721 of XF DSDD 360K disk is on side 2 track 40, sector 18

same sector number on ATR is side 2 track 1 sector 1.

 

James

correct... could be a bit of an exercise to put thing back correctly if somehow the disks were imaged in differing ways rather than straight copies...

 

[Gitbizy]

59 minutes ago, sup8pdct said:

The ATR8000 double sided sector numbering is different to the XF551. Side 1 is the same. Side 2 on the XF steps from the inner most track back to outermost. the ATR on side 2 steps from outermost to innermost.

IE sector 721 of XF DSDD 360K disk is on side 2 track 40, sector 18

same sector number on ATR is side 2 track 1 sector 1.

 

James

 

very interesting information.

 

 

What is the disk layout of these ATR8000 3.5" disks?  tracks/sectors/bytes per sector?

 

so for the ATR8000, a 3.5" disk has 40 tracks on the front and 40 on the back, not 80 tracks double sided?

 

 

I believe my disks are DSDD -- wouldn't that mean 720kb??

 

but how do I know if they are 360kb or 720kb disks from the ATR?  The 3.5" drive I have is a teac FD-35 and I am pretty sure that is a 720kb drive.

 

How in the heck do I get the data off my 20 - ATR 3.5" disks if I can't get the ATR to read (anything...)?

 

seems like I put myself in more of a pickle back in 1993 by archiving my data to these ATR8000 3.5" disks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Gitbizy

[Gitbizy]

When I use MYDOS 4.51, is there some command I need to issue inside mydos to make it recognize the ATR8000 (and it's 2 attached drives), or should this happen automatically when I boot?

 

In otherwords, should I be booting a 1050 with Mydos 4.51 and the ATR daisy chained, and once I get to Mydos do I need to configure something to see the drives, or should the ATR8000 drives be able to boot directly without the 1050 hooked up?

 

Sorry I am asking all these questions, I was a LOT younger 30 years ago when I used this stuff daily LOL.

 

 

 

When I do the following:

power up floppy enclosure 

power up ATR8000

>both drive lights blink once<

then I power the 130XE and get a long "BRRRRRRRRR" sound and then I get "ready". 

 

 

when I hook up the 1050 to the XE and power it up, the 1050 boots right up to mydos 4.51 (when that disk is in).

 

if I boot up the 1050 to mydos and have the ATR8000 with both drives on, should not the drive letters "show up" at the top of MYDOS, or once again do I have to configure something to make that happen.

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Gitbizy

[_The Doctor__]

Most of this is answered in the manuals that I gave you the links to.

If they are the original disks that were made by the ATR8000 then they will work with the ATR8000, the format of ATR8000 disks follow the standard layout of just about any other disk with the normal layout of tracks and sides. The XF is a special case, and the only adaptors to mimic the XF551 is the CSS Black Box with Floppy Board and APE as far as I can remember.

 

If you have made disks from ATR's files (which have nothing to do with the ATR 8000 by the way) then you can have just about any format of disk going on... XF methods or standard methods... You might take a look with a sector editor, or use a streaming archival set up to extract the information and look at it.

or try the disks in a converted 3.5 XF, floppy board, or in the ATR 8000.

 

somedisk.atr does not mean ATR 8000...

Are the drive assigned ds0 and ds1 with their jumpers on a straight ribbon cable and terminated? that was mentioned.

Are the disks the originally made by the ATR 8000 disks or somedisk.atr copied to an XF or other drive system?

 

Please take the time to ensure everything is configured and CLEAN. Drive heads can develope a film that hardens and you think it's dead but after a bunch of cleaning they turn out to work just fine.

 

No one can guess if you formatted any disk as 90k, 180k, 360k, 720K, or 1.2~.4 whatever... We would have to try them or look at them directly. Or their flux dumps..

 

You are asking what others already answered or gave you as a tip... the ATR 8000 should be first in the daisy chain...

 

Did you not read where I said hold down option on an XL/XE or make sure their are no cartridges in an 800 etc.?

 

You can't have an Atari serial drive (810,1050,XF) assigned as D1: D2: while the ATR 8000 has those drives assigned at the same time same as you can't have disks in respeqt or ape etc either... the will conflict and the ATR 8000 will either interfere or drop the drives attached to it.

Edited December 19, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[Kyle22]

I wish I had not sold mine BITD.

 

[+Larry]

12 hours ago, sup8pdct said:

The ATR8000 double sided sector numbering is different to the XF551. Side 1 is the same. Side 2 on the XF steps from the inner most track back to outermost. the ATR on side 2 steps from outermost to innermost.

IE sector 721 of XF DSDD 360K disk is on side 2 track 40, sector 18

same sector number on ATR is side 2 track 1 sector 1.

 

James

 

Let's assume the worst -- a hardware/settings fix doesn't happen.  Is it possible to reorder the tracks and sectors on side 2 to fit the XF layout scheme, if the OP can come up with an XF 720K drive?  Basically, I'm saying read all the side two sectors into a buffer, then re-write them into the XF style.  Or am I over-simplifying it?

[_The Doctor__]

Yes you can re order them... some methods were to sector copy with appropriate devices, others were command line tools industrious folks explained and provided on whatever website, forum, bbs .... it was at the time... pretty sure such things could be tracked down or done again..

 

[a8isa1]

On 12/17/2021 at 2:36 PM, Gitbizy said:

Can you all pretend like I haven't tried to get the ATR-8000 into CPM mode since 1984 LOL.

 

I need baby steps .... YIKES.

 

 

I haven't found an ATR-8000 disk in my collection so those may have been lost.

 

Do I have to hook up something to the RS232 port to test RS232??

 

AS far as the basic LPRINT test.

 

I hooked up the 130XE to the ATR.  Powered on both.  (left HD cable off the ATR)

 

I hear a "brrrrrrrrrrr" sound 

 

On the 130XE at the READY prompt, I typed in LPRINT

 

I heard a short "brr" then it returned to READY.

 

 

 

I'm convinced your ATR8000 is alive.   

 

I suggest simplifying your testing. 

 

Start with your 5.25" drive.   As the The_Doctor suggested make sure the floppy cable is connected correctly.  Pin 1 on the ATR8000 is on the right hand side.  cable's pin 1 must connect to pin 1 on your floppy drives's connect.

 

My ATR8000 has an unkeyed connector making it very easy to invert the cable connector (bad).  Some ATR8000s have a *keyed* connector but since some cables are unkeyed it's still possible to make a connection inverted.

 

Next check your 5.25" drive.  Since during the test the drive will be the only one on the cable it should have a resistor network.  Some drives have a DIP package others have a SIPP

 

The drive should have jumper DS0 (Drive Select 0) set.

 

There must not be a flip in your cable.

 

Connect the drive to the ATR8000 placing it at the end of the cable.  I realize this may possible as your cable will likely have a 34 pin IDC header connector(s) for the 3.5" drive(s) and also a 34 pin card edge connector (for the 5.25" drive).  Do not connect the Atari at this point. Power up the drive.  Power on the ATR8000.  The drive should reset to track 0.  It's a familiar sound.  If this doesn't happen the drive is not going to work (yet).  If it doesn't I'm sorry I don't have enough experience to troubleshoot at this point.   My ATR8000 has not failed me since I acquired it in 1983 or 1984.

 

Assuming the above test worked I would like you to prepare a new bootable floppy using your Happy drive.  MyDOS will work.  It's easy to change densities.  Type 'P" (Pick Density).  Change disks and format the one you insert. The reason you want a single density disk is it it guaranteed to be be compatible (assuming all drives are in working order and baring alignment issues with one or more drive) is it is guaranteed to work on the ATR8000.

 

Disconnect the Happy from the Atari and connect the ATR8000.  Hopefully the new disk will boot.  If everything is working it should boot.  If the test earlier worked then the ATR8000 should at least try to boot.  Let us know the outcome.

 

Good luck.

 

-SteveS

Edited December 19, 2021 by a8isa1

[Gitbizy]

@a8isa1 and @_The Doctor__

 

Thank you for your replies. 

 

I worked more on the ATR8000 today.

 

I re-did the cable; but the end result is I am still not getting any activity on the drive when the 130XE boots.  Just what sounds like a stall/timeout BRRRR.  there is NO flip in the cable.

 

The cable looks like this:

 

edge connector (ATR) side, and the lid is off on my ATR so I am sure that pin 1 is in the correct location.  2nd connector standard 34 pin floppy female, 3rd connector another EDGE connector that is plugged into the 5.25HD.

 

I did put a multimeter on the external floppy enclosure to verify the voltages.  I am getting around ~12.10v and ~4.9xx volts.

 

Here is what I have.

Toshiba 1.2mb HD 5.25.  This has termination "ON" and is the 2nd drive (last drive) in the chain.

Teac FD-35 DSDD 3.5", this has DS0 and is not terminated.

 

The TEAC 3.5 will not blink or anything when I power it.  The Toshiba's motor spins for a moment and will blink when I power the ATR on and off.

 

I tried just plugging in the 5.25 1.2mb floppy and setting DS0 to "on", but the disk will not spin up or read when the ATR is "on" and the 130XE is powered up.  it just gives me the standard SIO timeout BRRRRR.

 

I do not have a 5.25 "low density" drive.

 

I am willing to buy a used Low Density 5.25 drive that someone else here has used successfully on the ATR, along with a 3.5" 720k (low density DSDD) drive that someone else has verified as working as well on the ATR.

 

If you all could tell me which drives you are using that would be a starting point.

I am still a bit concerned that the ATR isn't properly working as all I am getting on floppy reads is "BRRRRRRR".

 

[moonlight_mile]

If you were able to get into ATRMON I am thinking there is a good chance the 1797 is fubar.

Also, what about the caps? I replaced all mine on the first ATR. I don’t believe I needed to but it has all new caps.

The place I was advised to get the 1797s is in that original thread. I can’t think of the website off the top of my head but they were very good to work with. Anything that didn’t work the let me return or exchange.

Here is the thread:

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/220185-atr-8000-and-other-cpm-system-disks-here/