Is the Amico dead?

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

Not so clear:

 

• One RFID digital media card to download the game license when the game becomes available on the Intellivision Amico Game Shop. (Dates TBA)
• A physical good and not a software license to the game title until the game becomes available to be downloaded on the Intellivision Amico Game Shop.

It literally states you are buying a physical good until the sw becomes available, but there's no strong contract as to the fact it will ever be.

I understand they didn't mean to be deceiving and were just stating the reality that games ain't ready, e-shop neither, and that you're buying trinkets and a promise for a license in the case the game shows up in a thing called "Intellivision Amico Game Shop". The license ownership is conditional in this case (they owe you nothing in case the game or the store never comes to be), while the physical goods (not the games) were what came in the packages and are tangible and at that fulfil the purchase agreement.

This. Republic investors only get money on hardware and software sales. Those boxes are neither.

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

Anyway, the point was that the disclaimer is meant for customers and not a way to get out of sharing revenue with Republic/Fig.

Has anyone received money for their FGSs? Doesn't matter what the point of the disclaimer is. Part of the side effect is there is no software or license. No need to pay out since trinket sales is not part of the agreement. Unless you know of one Republic investor who has recieved something back. I'm sure there's one or two people on the AA forums who did. If they would like to say they've seen some returns that would be good news.

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

But obviously the ones they made available in bundles, by mail order, in advance of console release was meant for collectors.

I think they were made for a cash injection because they knew these collectors would buy them with no release date in sight. Which is also stated in the disclaimer. ?

[Rev]

1 hour ago, jerseystyle said:

Wait . . . does your participation here mean I can talk about Cornhole again?

 

Just dont start spamming shark pics and threads like that one guy…..

 

Where is that guy from anyway. Looks a little like Cmart. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rev

[mr_me]

7 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

This. Republic investors only get money on hardware and software sales. Those boxes are neither.

Has anyone received money for their FGSs? Doesn't matter what the point of the disclaimer is. Part of the side effect is there is no software or license. No need to pay out since trinket sales is not part of the agreement. Unless you know of one Republic investor who has recieved something back. I'm sure there's one or two people on the AA forums who did. If they would like to say they've seen some returns that would be good news.

I think they were made for a cash injection because they knew these collectors would buy them with no release date in sight. Which is also stated in the disclaimer. ?

Even the disclaimer says the user gets a game license once the game is downloaded.  I don't know of one RepublicFig investor that said they haven't received a dividend payment.  If they haven't received it they should, eventually.  Have you done the math to see what that dividend payment would be?  It's a lot of discussion for such a small number, and I'd be surprised if it was paid at this time, as discussed in earlier posts.

[Rev]

25 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Even the disclaimer says the user gets a game license once the game is downloaded.  I don't know of one RepublicFig investor that said they haven't received a dividend payment.  If they haven't received it they should, eventually.  Have you done the math to see what that dividend payment would be?  It's a lot of discussion for such a small number, and I'd be surprised if it was paid at this time, as discussed in earlier posts.

Every game was also supposed to be an NFT.   

[Matt_B]

54 minutes ago, Rev said:

Every game was also supposed to be an NFT.   

I suspect that was more of a desperation bandwagon jump than anything they'd been deliberately planning, as evidenced by the squirming around that happened whenever they were asked what the benefits of NFTs actually were.

 

The only NFT games that have been successful - and by that I mean have attracted a player base because they're all Ponzi schemes when you look at the financials - have been the ones built around the technology from the ground up and with asset trading as a central mechanic. They're not something that you can just graft on to a finished game like cosmetic microtransactions.

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

If they haven't received it they should, eventually.  Have you done the math to see what that dividend payment would be?  It's a lot of discussion for such a small number, and I'd be surprised if it was paid at this time, as discussed in earlier posts.

Yeah I have, they get $0 and that's what I've been saying ?. There has not been any software sold per IE's own words. Also they don't get to choose if they do or don't disperse the money.

 

When do you think they should eventually get that payment? 

 

Edit: SmashJT has received zero payments for his investment.

Edited March 22, 2022 by MrBeefy
Giving an investor who hasn't received anything.

[Rev]

9 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah I have, they get $0 and that's what I've been saying ?. There has not been any software sold per IE's own words. Also they don't get to choose if they do or don't disperse the money.

 

When do you think they should eventually get that payment? 

 

Edit: SmashJT has received zero patents for his investment.

Was the plan that when the user tapped the RFID card you already purchased onto the console, it triggered a download, and at the same time that downloaded game was registered to the “blockchain” that you owned it. (Possibly serial numbered)

 

We never actually seen any of this in action, let alone a real OS.  That OS menu shown surely could not of been the final product. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Rev

[MrBeefy]

1 minute ago, Rev said:

Was the plan that when the user tapped the RFID card you already purchased onto the console, it triggered a download, and at the same time that downloaded game was registered to the “blockchain” that you owned it. (Possibly serial numbered)

Probably. Considering they really didn't explain it who really knows. I would have thought they would have had to advertise they were NFTs on the packages. ?‍♀️

[Rev]

3 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Probably. Considering they really didn't explain it who really knows. I would have thought they would have had to advertise they were NFTs on the packages. ?‍♀️

Yeah you are right. The boxes said zero about them being NFT.
 

Maybe NFT was a second seperate purchase??????? Who knows….maybe Mr Me remembers. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Rev

[MrBeefy]

5 minutes ago, Rev said:

Yeah you are right. The boxes said zero about them being NFT.
 

Maybe NFT was a second seperate purchase??????? Who knows….maybe Mr Me remembers. 

It also said the games were released in 2021 too. So who knows what they were thinking. Bi-Planes was another sign of lack of quality control so it could be something like that too. Or maybe it wasn't really NFTs? I think we are at the point that many possibilities could be legit and believable.

[wolfy62]

5 hours ago, Rev said:

Maybe i can get the NeoGeo mini and be done. ?

I like the Neo Geo mini and the HDMI picture quality on my big screen is way better than reviews were saying it is!

And since the price has dropped down over time,I can highly recommend it for another reason. ? 

[Noah98]

6 hours ago, Rev said:

I agree, a redesign and just use xbox style controllers or something. 
 

But that is a total redesign, starting at zero with FCC/CE. Likely would be another year delay before hitting the market. And at that point it would no longer be an “amico”.  Thus my Intellivision Prism theory (any name really)

 

That gets them off the investor hook. ????

Probably would take a long time for any redesign, but I don't think they can carry out the original.  I would like to see the original controllers with the disc retained, but maybe put some buttons where the touch screens are.  You could still hold them, either vertically or horizontally, depending on the game.  If the go with an XBOX style controller, they might as well forgo the hardware and just license the software.  I wonder if the Evercade Vs is powerful enough to run their games?  If so, redesign the software and partner with them.  Maybe make a special Intellivision themed version of the Vs.  Not such a bad idea!

[Rev]

9 minutes ago, Noah98 said:

Probably would take a long time for any redesign, but I don't think they can carry out the original.  I would like to see the original controllers with the disc retained, but maybe put some buttons where the touch screens are.  You could still hold them, either vertically or horizontally, depending on the game.  If the go with an XBOX style controller, they might as well forgo the hardware and just license the software.  I wonder if the Evercade Vs is powerful enough to run their games?  If so, redesign the software and partner with them.  Maybe make a special Intellivision themed version of the Vs.  Not such a bad idea!

They could probably be ported to the Mattel Hyperscan console.  Look at Ben10.  Looks pretty good for a 2D side scroller. 
 

 

[mr_me]

8 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah I have, they get $0 and that's what I've been saying ?. There has not been any software sold per IE's own words. Also they don't get to choose if they do or don't disperse the money.

 

When do you think they should eventually get that payment? 

 

Edit: SmashJT has received zero payments for his investment.

IE has a revenue share agreement with Republic Fig, and RepublicFig has an agreement with its shareholders to pay dividends.  I notice two things.  Declaring dividends begins after the Amico is released, and RepublicFig has some discretion to hold a dividend to a future payment.  There's also mention of a minimum dividend.

 

9 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I suspect that was more of a desperation bandwagon jump than anything they'd been deliberately planning, as evidenced by the squirming around that happened whenever they were asked what the benefits of NFTs actually were.

 

The only NFT games that have been successful - and by that I mean have attracted a player base because they're all Ponzi schemes when you look at the financials - have been the ones built around the technology from the ground up and with asset trading as a central mechanic. They're not something that you can just graft on to a finished game like cosmetic microtransactions.

This is what the SEC disclosure says about NFT.

"Infrastructure has been put in place to offer, in the future, digital games tied to an NFT for the purpose of maintaining digital ownership rights."

"The platform also includes our cloud based blockchain technology built on top of a market leading enterprise-grade public network enabling Intellivision to become what we believe to be the first video game company to offer all games as NFTs."

 

[Steven Pendleton]

17 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

If things have improved and you have some cash, looks like you can still order them if you want.  Better hurry though, I saw an email some time back saying they were nearly sold out, going fast, or something like that.

Lol not really in a rush. At this point, I'll perhaps pick them up if they ever ship the system... perhaps unlikely. I'm also looking at very foolishly wasting a few thousand dollars on Toaplan games this year, possibly including at least one relatively uncommon arcade PCB, so I kind of need some cash for that. I need a Slap Fight PCB~

[IMBerzerk]

Did anyone ever find out what kind of technolgy was designed into the unit itself?  Was it more powerful than a RPi4?  Cell Phone?  Ipad?

From the start, I always felt these games were just converted flash/cell phone games until I saw Bomb Squad, which was one of the games I was hoping to play.

[number6]

46 minutes ago, IMBerzerk said:

Did anyone ever find out what kind of technolgy was designed into the unit itself?  Was it more powerful than a RPi4?  Cell Phone?  Ipad?

From the start, I always felt these games were just converted flash/cell phone games until I saw Bomb Squad, which was one of the games I was hoping to play.

In short the information was meant to help prospective developers. Another case of good intentions...

 

#6

[IMBerzerk]

15 minutes ago, number6 said:

In short the information was meant to help prospective developers. Another case of good intentions...

 

#6

Thanks.  Got it from your posted article...

 

We've found the ZTE ZMax Pro Z981 (Snapdragon 617, Adreno 405) is a good benchmark test and runs just a little slower than the Amico hardware.

 

"This model of ZTE smartphone debuted in 2016 at a budget price point of $100 unlocked—and that included a 13 MP camera sensor, a 6-inch, 1080p display, and a 3,400 mAh battery. In comparison, Amico works as a set-top box for your TV while embedding a 3.2-inch, 240p capacitive touchscreen into each of its controllers (two will be included in the box). Other comparable phones listed in Amico's portal include the Honor 8C, Xiamoi Redmi Y3, and Motorola Moto G7.

 

The developer portal calls out Qualcomm's Smart Display 200 platform as Amico's retail hardware target—and specifies its "APQ8053-Lite" model, which includes a 1.8GHz Snapdragon 624, an Adreno 506 GPU, 16GB of Flash storage, 2GB of LPDDR3 DRAM, and built-in controllers for interfaces like HDMI, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth (but not Ethernet). While prices on bulk-manufactured SoC motherboards can vary for many reasons, this one appears to be available in bulk orders at rates near $38 per board (though that one includes a camera sensor, which Amico will not have in either its primary box or its controllers)."

 

I actually have a Mot G7... it.. sucks.  Bogs down a lot and is just an average "I own a phone" model cell phone.  Fine for me, but no hot rod.

Edited March 22, 2022 by IMBerzerk

[mr_me]

The Snapdragon 624 is not a cell phone SoC but it is equivalent to the Snapdragon 450.  So you can search the 450 for performance.  I wouldn't expect hot rod cell phone performance, they can cost around $1000.

 

The cpu in the Rpi4 is more advanced than the 624 but the 624 has double the processing cores and runs at a higher clock speed.  The gpu in the 624 is considerably more powerful than the rpi4.

Edited March 22, 2022 by mr_me

[IMBerzerk]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

The Snapdragon 624 is not a cell phone SoC but it is equivalent to the Snapdragon 450.  So you can search the 450 for performance.  I wouldn't expect hot rod cell phone performance, they can cost around $1000.

 

The cpu in the Rpi4 is more advanced than the 624 but the 624 has double the processing cores and runs at a higher clock speed.  The gpu in the 624 is considerably more powerful than the rpi4.

Not sure it would be that expensive considering it would be minus half the capability of a cell phone... no camera (which is the most expensive part), no cell service, and limited storage.

 

But regardless, seemed like it was plenty of power for what they needed.  The games looked smooth, and the interaction seemed instant with no delays.  

This whole thing is just sad from any angle you look at it.  There was a genuine effort, and what looked like good people behind it.. all for nothing?  Only a few more month will tell.

 

I'm still in though.

[mr_me]

Built-in storage in the Amico is 32GB, not 16GB.

[MrBeefy]

59 minutes ago, IMBerzerk said:

But regardless, seemed like it was plenty of power for what they needed.  The games looked smooth, and the interaction seemed instant with no delays.  

The units they had at any of their events were not production ready units per friends of Tommy. They had various optimizations that had certain games running better on certain units.

 

I would hope they would get that all worked out before release, but with no production ready unit shown it could be fixed or worse. 

[mr_me]

The hardware in those prototypes and dev kits would have the same SoC and ram as being discussed.  But no they didn't finalise the hardware for manufacturing until later in the year. Other than unexpected bugs, software optimisation should improve performance over time.

Edited March 22, 2022 by mr_me

[IMBerzerk]

2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

The units they had at any of their events were not production ready units per friends of Tommy. They had various optimizations that had certain games running better on certain units.

 

I would hope they would get that all worked out before release, but with no production ready unit shown it could be fixed or worse. 

It really is about building the game code to the spec of the machine.   Something a lot of the games that were really good back in the day, but the average shmoe like me didn't have the $$ to upgrade my rig to play.

 

One of the best examples of that is just about every version of MS Flight Simulator, dating back to the SubLOGIC version on a C64.  Look great (well... for back then) but ran like garbage.

 

 

[MattPilz]

A few weeks back I compiled a detailed rundown of my past and recent experience getting in queue for a pre-order, canceling that pre-order, then securing a Founder's Edition, as well as ordering the physical media. I'm sharing it in this thread as well for those interested in the details. The RFID section might be of particular interest for those following the physical media side of things, as I give more information than what had been previously reported about their tech.

Original Pre-Order and Cancellation

On June 2, 2021 at 1:53 p.m. CST I preordered the woodgrain Amico. The order ID for this was #04738. If we take the order numbers at face value, fewer than 4,750 units had been pre-ordered at that point at least in the general pre-order bank. This aligns with the 5,400 to 6,000 pre-order figure (including original Founder/VIP) seen in various fundraisers and statements but doesn't match the 10,000 pre-order figure circulated originally.

 

On June 14, 2021 Intellivision ran their E3 presentation, which had mostly borrowed from its 2020 teasers and trailers. I did not see enough progress by that point to feel we'd be seeing the system anytime soon but waited a couple weeks to see if they'd provide additional fresh updates in follow-up E3 conversations. I didn't see any.

 

On June 29, 2021 at 2:15 p.m. CST I requested a refund from Kevin at Intellivision, as directed to from Tommy.

 

On June 29, 2021 at 4:18 p.m. CST Kevin promptly responded and initiated the refund of my pre-order, no questions asked.

 

On June 30, 2021 at 11:45 a.m. CST The order was formally refunded and I received a notice direct from their store with the heading "Intellivision Entertainment: Order #04738 Refunded."

If current users who have requested refunds since the "quiet period" started have not seen the above refund email in their inbox, it should be assumed that they have not acted yet on your refund requests. It was a prompt turnaround for me and the refund notice came within two days of my request. It then took the usual 3-5 days to appear back on my card as statement credit.

Founder Edition Queue and Deposit

On February 10, 2022, Phil Adams told NLG at 33:09: "I would advise anybody who thinks they want the Founder's, we do have a waiting list, but if you want send an email and put your name on the list if you decide that that's something you want, at least get in line, it doesn't cost anything to get in line." Around that same time I'd read on the Facebook group from Tommy that there were over 300 people believed to be on this waiting list.

 

On Feb. 10, 2022 at 8:44 p.m. CST immediately after hearing Phil's remark above, I wrote to Intellivision to ask to be added to this list.

 

On Feb. 11, 2022 at 10:02 a.m. CST Britnee responded to confirm I was added to the list.

 

On Feb. 17, 2022 at 4:10 p.m. CST Britnee replied that there was already an opening for a Founders Edition and asked if I was still interested. I sent back my details for them to generate a $100 invoice.

 

On Feb. 18, 2022 at 11:47 a.m. CST a PayPal invoice was sent seeking $100. The invoice ID for this was #0038. If we read into the invoice number, it implies there were just 37 prior invoices generated this same way for others who were in line to take over a FE spot before me, ten times fewer than previously assumed. This would make more sense as to why I was able to get a spot in the FE queue in just a few days after signing up.

 

This was a payment made via PayPal that comes with 180 days of PayPal-supplied buyer protection as usual. I am currently following the developments... If within 5-6 months we still have had no encouraging signs that any units will be manufactured or no updates on acquisition next-steps, I am comfortable knowing that the charge can be disputed directly through PayPal if need be, but so far it seems Intellivision has still been honoring $100 refunds when asked.

8-Pack Collector Set and RFID Details

I am a technical person who has taken some interest in the planned RFID operations of this platform. I also collect and research development for really obscure and commercially unsuccessful platforms (Mattel Aquarius, Mattel Hyperscan, Bally Astrocade, etc...)

 

On Feb. 28, 2022 at 11:39 p.m. CST I ordered the "Limited Collector's Boxed Edition Complete Bundle [Pack of 8] from Intellivision's Shopify store. The total was $149.99 + $15.75 USPS Priority Mail shipping.

 

On Mar. 1, 2022 at 2:38 p.m. CST Intellivision had processed the order and generated the mailing label to ship.

 

On Mar. 2, 2022 at 4:06 p.m. CST Intellivision sent the mass email from Phil explaining the "quiet period" as they start discussions with potential investors/acquirerers.

 

On Mar. 4, 2022 the shipment was delivered.

 

The order number for my physical media package was #12430. Original order numbers from last October were in the range of #1000+. After Intellivision obscured the total quantities available, it was not possible to track how many more were sold. We can't read much into the new order numbers since Shopify allows one to adjust the "next invoice number" at any point. For example, they could had revised the start invoice to #11000 or #12000 and continued from there some time in the last 4 months. Based on the ~95% drop-off rate of sales in 48 hours back in Oct. 2021 and only around 1,000 8-set units sold in its first week, I guess they manually increased the order ID start range. If all games were evenly manufactured they would have a maximum of 2,500 US 8-sets to sell (and 5,000 4-sets).

Physical Construction

So far I have opened one of the boxes for one of my favorite Atari games, Moon Patrol. The RFID card is very easy to scuff up and damage. It is not a high gloss or a laminated credit-card like plastic. Just in attempting to place it back in the box, I ran the back of a fingernail across it in a couple spots and now its luster has permanent nail scratches and indents running through it along with finger marks. There are some obvious overlooked design details like the lack of bolded text on the Biplanes bind and a discoloration on Rigid Force.

 

The lenticular card is plain paper/cardboard on the back and has square corner edges, not unlike most collectible baseball-style cards. The actual 3D front is barely animated at all, much less-so than the GIF Tommy shared, and not quite the same presented design. It feels like they used a nearly identical image for at least two of the three angles and even under close scrutiny it is difficult to see much change as you rotate the card. In the GIF there are three spaceships attacking and it shows clear perspective as the 'camera' rotates around them, but the card only shows two UFOs and the movement is negligible. I've seen some incredible motion cards and posters and feel Intellivision should've taken such an approach, where the images radically change as you rotate instead of subtle "angle" movement. I have a Nintendo lenticular poster that visually changes from Mario to Peach to Bowser as you view it from different angles, and have seen similar action cards and four-season type designs that are really fun to view from different angles, even many store gift cards do this. It would've been preferred to have the graphics of these collector cards change "levels" and similar as you switched viewing angles.

 

I was hoping for something like this: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1015/7601/products/ezgif.com-gif-maker_7_1024x1024.gif?v=1600813630 but instead we see what appears to be a static image on the Amico cards, just somewhat blurry from multiple tangibly different perspectives. Finnigan Fox in particular would've been awesome as a lenticular card if it cycled the seasons just as the game does, rather than just these subtle movements.

RFID Deep Dive

The back of the RFID card has a 20-digit number printed to it. It's been implied that this code will need to be entered as part of some process of transferring ownership. The data of the card itself can be scanned using any ordinary RFID reader and any relatively modern smartphone.

 

It uses the common NFC Data Exchange Format (NDEF) and conforms to NFC-V (ISO 15693-3 and ISO 15693-2) specifications. The internals are powered by a wafer-style LRI2K via STMicroelectronics, which was introduced in 2006 and entered obsolete status by suppliers as of 2015 (you can read a 2006 announcement of this tech here). This provides a theoretical maximum of 2Kb of user memory, though the chips here appear contained to 128 characters of NDEF data and 256 characters of NFC record data (e.g., URL). The full tech specs, memory mapping and whitepaper for these ICs is available here (Page 18+ includes the memory map specific to LRI2K including URI examples). An even more detailed spec sheet specific to the LRI2K is here. Back when they were first announced, they were available at less than ten cents per unit.

 

The chips contain a single message and record, programmed to trigger an Intellivision URL. The data is stored as plain text in hexadecimal form as required by the spec. They point to a URL such as: https://intellivision.com/rfid/evel-knievel?i=63po65b12n Since this is a 'U' type message with HTTPS protocol, it automatically triggers a web browser to launch the URL in modern devices. These URLs typically consume 55-65 bytes of data and is read-only. Currently these URLs direct to a placeholder page at: https://intellivision.com/boxed-edition-thank-you/

 

While I have seen an interview where it was implied there is additional hidden data on the card outside of the URL, I cannot find any such data in my own tests. The limited data capacity of the cards and singular variable URI messages already consuming a good chunk of that, it doesn't seem likely especially if no such extra data is detected by NFC/RFID analyzers and after review of the card tech specs. It uses ordinary Android.NFC.Tech.NFCV and Android.NFC.Tech.NDEF API technologies. It is true that these boxes can all be scanned without removing them from the packaging.

 

There are no NFT associations or ties to any of the physical products, this would have to be arranged on the back-end and we don't have any details about the inner-workings of that. At the moment it simply passes a 10 digit ID to the server. As a software engineer and web developer, I can see a path toward making this work from the server-side if they have enough developer prowess. They should already have a database that maps each physical RFID card (10 digit ID) to the 20-digit number on the back of each. This will allow basic management of each card/game and a trivial form of two-form security if needing to verify the user possesses the physical card--even with the unique URL ID known, a user would not know what the 20 digit code is without seeing the actual plastic card.

Edited March 22, 2022 by MattPilz