mr_me Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, phoenixdownita said: ... Remember the Karma Engine ... That's just their term for multiplayer game balancing. I didn't like the idea of a game becoming easier when I'm losing but considering their target market and how it's implemented, it makes sense. In the example I heard about, it only comes into play when a player is losing badly to avoid frustration. It shouldn't affect competitive play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 hours ago, mr_me said: Probably for European retailers, they'd be interested in seeing the European packaging. There are investors all over the world but a lot of them are in the US. With what you are describing, the video is unnecessary because they shipped the box to Hans. They don't need the video when Hans is supposedly taking it around to present to people. Unless you think Hans is incapable of doing that? ?♀️ It's to keep people on the hook or to hook an investor. With the influx of videos that came out it seems to have worked. Still no manufacture or ship date though. 7 minutes ago, mr_me said: That's just their term for multiplayer game balancing. I didn't like the idea of a game becoming easier when I'm losing but considering their target market and how it's implemented, it makes sense. In the example I heard about, it only comes into play when a player is losing badly to avoid frustration. It shouldn't affect competitive play. Um, if you are playing against someone that is competitive play. If I'm playing Shark! Shark! with my wife and I get a tip because she's beating me that is competitive play. Besides this isn't a new concept and has already been done by other games (Blue turtle shell anyone?).It's far from revolutionary. I think acting like they had some tech built in to do it early on was unnecessary hype. Especially when it was later said to be some BS they made up. It makes it seem like it was doing something that hasn't been done before when in fact they aren't breaking new ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Game balancing is not BS, they have it implemented in Shark Shark. Typically, experienced players against someone learning is not a competitive game. It's something they'll try to implement in as many games as possible. Edited March 25, 2022 by mr_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, mr_me said: Game balancing is not BS, they have it implemented in Shark Shark. Typically, experienced players against someone learning is not a competitive game. It's something they'll try to implement in as many games as possible. Whats game balancing, everyone gets a trophy? ? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rev said: Whats game balancing, everyone gets a trophy? ? In this case, it's so you don't feel frustrated playing against better players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, mr_me said: In this case, it's so you don't feel frustrated playing against better players. Same concept. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Rev said: Same concept. No. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJD69 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) On 3/18/2022 at 7:35 AM, Rev said: I just wanted to play an updated Night Stalker and Cloudy Mountain, maybe Brickout. The rest was mostly available on other systems and phones. Me too, for $149 as they originally promised. Now, it's priced way too high for the majority of the casual retro gaming crowd (who bought the NES Classic type of products). BUT, even if the console never makes it to market, I'm sure the finished games will find their way to become sellable product somehow (PC, browser or smartphone). Edited March 25, 2022 by SJD69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 2 hours ago, mr_me said: Game balancing is not BS, they have it implemented in Shark Shark. Typically, experienced players against someone learning is not a competitive game. It's something they'll try to implement in as many games as possible. No, the former CEO said the Karma Engine was made up BS. ? 1 hour ago, mr_me said: In this case, it's so you don't feel frustrated playing against better players. You mean like when they are competing against each other? ? 1 hour ago, Rev said: Same concept. 1 hour ago, mr_me said: No. My Beefy Karma Engine leveled the playing field and gave you both a trophy since you aren't competing. Yay you both win!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, SJD69 said: Me too, for $149 as they originally promised. Now, it's priced way too high for the majority of the casual retro gaming crowd (who bought the NES Classic type of products). BUT, even if the console never makes it to market, I'm sure the finished games will find their way to become sellable product somehow (PC, browser or smartphone). And just think about how at retail it will be priced at $300-$350. I think Night Stalker and Cloudy looked okay. I wanted to play Cornhole but that urge is gone with Switch Sports on the horizon. I still think those would get lost in the shuffle on other platforms. Atari at least has name recognition for the Recharge series. Cloudy would suffer without the D&D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 14 hours ago, Rev said: Enough of your tom foolery! ???? I think the term they are using these days is "jackassery!" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 14 hours ago, Omnibro said: I'm not sure what unboxing a previously opened prototype is supposed to prove or show. It's to show the box is done of course! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 It's obvious you guys never worked in the video game industry before. ? When you design a game, you always start with a catchy title, then the box art. Always. ? 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, atarifan88 said: It's to show the box is done of course! ? Shouldn't the box design have been completed back in 2020 when they were originally going to release it, or before the planned 2021 release dates? Why is it only now completed 3 delays later in 2022? Why are the built in games still not completed? Why is the back end still not completed? There is no way this can still be blamed on the pandemic. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, MrBeefy said: No, the former CEO said the Karma Engine was made up BS. ? Obviously, the term is made up, but it's part of the developer guidelines. I've seen it in Shark Shark. 1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said: ... Why are the built in games still not completed? Why is the back end still not completed? There is no way this can still be blamed on the pandemic. They can continue to work on the packin games right up until they go to production, others up until they are released. You should have asked the CTO, why the backend isn't completed. Maybe it's the payment system that's handled by a third party. 6 hours ago, MrBeefy said: You mean like when they are competing against each other? That's right, it's not meant for single player or cooperative game modes. Edited March 25, 2022 by mr_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 46 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said: Shouldn't the box design have been completed back in 2020 when they were originally going to release it, or before the planned 2021 release dates? Why is it only now completed 3 delays later in 2022? I don't know. Maybe they felt the box design wasn't important then and they wanted to concentrate on the games and GUI? 47 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said: Why are the built in games still not completed? Why is the back end still not completed? There is no way this can still be blamed on the pandemic. Why all the questions here? Why not ask someone at Intellivision Entertainment? At this point I'm not expecting answers to those questions as they are moot points right now. I'm just keeping an eye out to see if this thing will ever be released. In the meantime, I'm glad I never pre-paid for anything that didn't exist. In this day and age, it just seems like a bad idea. People who do it are just asking to be taken advantage of. If the Amico never comes out, I still have my Ultimate Intellivision Flashback to play all the original games and homebrews. I won't lose any sleep over it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy2D Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, mr_me said: Obviously, the term is made up, but it's part of the developer guidelines. I've seen it in Shark Shark. That's the point. It wasn't at all obvious that it was made up. IE initially presented it as a proprietary "engine", which would facilitate game development. That is very different than a design philosophy. It would be like a call-center company suggesting that they are developing a "Customer Retention Engine" but you find out that the "engine" is a script that customer service agents read to assuage angry callers. IE is not the first company to do this but it absolutely lowered their credibility, at least, in my eyes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, atarifan88 said: I don't know. Maybe they felt the box design wasn't important then and they wanted to concentrate on the games and GUI? Why all the questions here? Why not ask someone at Intellivision Entertainment? At this point I'm not expecting answers to those questions as they are moot points right now. I'm just keeping an eye out to see if this thing will ever be released. In the meantime, I'm glad I never pre-paid for anything that didn't exist. In this day and age, it just seems like a bad idea. People who do it are just asking to be taken advantage of. If the Amico never comes out, I still have my Ultimate Intellivision Flashback to play all the original games and homebrews. I won't lose any sleep over it. Oh, the questions are more so rhetorical and me just thinking out loud because I don't expect we will really know what went on behind the scenes these past two years. It's more so just interesting things to ponder about given where everything currently stands with IE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 What would "game balancing" even be, from a practical standpoint? I could surely see giving different numbers of lives as a handicap or something, and of course in racing games there's rubberbanding, but....only 1/4 of the controller inputs register for a user winning too much? Intentionally cranking down the rate of fire on Biplanes or something? Introducing random keypresses into the winning car on a racing game? Absolutely none of the practical options I can come up with sound like "gee this is a fair way to balance something, I'll sure keep playing" but rather "this is ridiculous, now there's just 2+ mad people because the loser is frustrated that they're being beat and the winner is frustrated because now the LEFT button won't register to ensure the loser can win." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 I'm not a fan of "game balancing" in single player but at least it's been done and proven possible. In competitive MP it just sounds like an oxymoron. Perhaps they think of "matchmaking" but that's completely different kettle of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downland1983 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 19 hours ago, mr_me said: No, if the company needs to spend $100 on parts per Amico and they borrow the money to buy the parts, the parts are paid for, essentially by the lender. They pay back the lender the $100. It doesn't cost them $200 per Amico. The cost is $100 plus some interest or fees. It seems to me they are absolutely paying for parts twice, considering the $1.35 million paid to Ark Electronics for components that IE admitted they have not and may never receive or the cash back that was used to purchase them. Since they have or will have to repurchase those components from someone else, the components themselves are being paid for twice. I made sure to mention that in the tail end of my post, which you edited out in your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy2D Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said: What would "game balancing" even be, from a practical standpoint? I could surely see giving different numbers of lives as a handicap or something, and of course in racing games there's rubberbanding, but....only 1/4 of the controller inputs register for a user winning too much? Intentionally cranking down the rate of fire on Biplanes or something? Introducing random keypresses into the winning car on a racing game? Absolutely none of the practical options I can come up with sound like "gee this is a fair way to balance something, I'll sure keep playing" but rather "this is ridiculous, now there's just 2+ mad people because the loser is frustrated that they're being beat and the winner is frustrated because now the LEFT button won't register to ensure the loser can win." Spawning powerups closer to the lagging playing sounds okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tommy2D said: Spawning powerups closer to the lagging playing sounds okay. Ah, the Mario Kart approach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tommy2D said: Spawning powerups closer to the lagging playing sounds okay. Not to guy in the lead. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 11 hours ago, mr_me said: That's just their term for multiplayer game balancing. --- It shouldn't affect competitive play. 2 hours ago, mr_me said: That's right, it's not meant for single player or cooperative game modes. Pick a lane. ? 34 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said: Oh, the questions are more so rhetorical and me just thinking out loud because I don't expect we will really know what went on behind the scenes these past two years. It's more so just interesting things to ponder about given where everything currently stands with IE. I think we will know more after NDAs are up. At that point will we care or be discussing the next retro brand bought by someone trying to hook gamers with nostalgia bait? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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