Is the Amico dead?

[Pink]

Intellivision's patents have been rejected.

 

https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair

 

Enter the application number 15/931,353

Then click search, then click the image file wrapper.

[Rev]

23 minutes ago, Pink said:

Intellivision's patents have been rejected.

 

https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair

 

Enter the application number 15/931,353

Then click search, then click the image file wrapper.

 

What in the world????    I thought the patent was all passed, I looked at it before. 

 

Would intellivision Entertainment been able to release the console WITHOUT having a US patent approved?

Edited March 25, 2022 by Rev

[Rev]

03-14-2022	Electronic Review
03-14-2022	Email Notification
03-14-2022	Mail Non-Final Rejection
03-09-2022	Non-Final Rejection
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02-08-2022	Date Forwarded to Examiner
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08-09-2021	Electronic Review
08-09-2021	Email Notification
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08-03-2021	Restriction/Election Requirement
03-14-2021	Case Docketed to Examiner in GAU
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10-30-2020	Rescind Nonpublication Request for Pre Grant Publication
05-13-2020	PGPubs nonPub Request
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05-26-2020	Application Dispatched from OIPE
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05-13-2020	Initial Exam Team nn

[kevtris]

16 minutes ago, Rev said:

 

What in the world????    I thought the patent was all passed, I looked at it before. 

 

Would intellivision Entertainment been able to release the console WITHOUT having a US patent approved?

sure, you can release things without patents.  People do it all the time.  Now, you cannot claim to have a patent if it isn't approved.  All a patent does is gives you the right to sue someone.  It literally has no other purpose or use.  This is why patents are pretty useless for everyone that isn't a very large corporation.  If they want to use your patented stuff, they will do it and your only recourse is to sue.  Because they have a lot more higher priced lawyers, they will win and drain your bank account down and put you out of business.  then they'll keep on keepin' on using that technology or process with impunity.

[SegaSnatcher]

1 minute ago, kevtris said:

sure, you can release things without patents.  People do it all the time.  Now, you cannot claim to have a patent if it isn't approved.  All a patent does is gives you the right to sue someone.  It literally has no other purpose or use.  This is why patents are pretty useless for everyone that isn't a very large corporation.  If they want to use your patented stuff, they will do it and your only recourse is to sue.  Because they have a lot more higher priced lawyers, they will win and drain your bank account down and put you out of business.  then they'll keep on keepin' on using that technology or process with impunity.

I remember another guy who was big on patents.  

 

[BSRSteve]

10 minutes ago, Rev said:

Would intellivision Entertainment been able to release the console WITHOUT having a US patent approved?

A patent is not REQUIRED to release a product. It mostly protects you from copycats. And that appears to be a "non-final" rejection.

 

Some other comments that I can make about other things in this thread (I am limited in my ability to respond)

 

Using the potential Trademark on the game boxes and on clothing, is sufficient use to register the trademarks in those categories. The T-shirts and hats, etc that they sell can be used to register the trademarks for clothing. I am not sure of the categories the game boxes would cover.

 

The goal of the "karma engine" philosophy is to allow children to compete with teens and adults on more even footing. The original plan was for it to be optional, but also that a login to the controller could allow the game to remember abilities level from previous games. 

 

Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly.

[Rev]

Thanks for the clarification on patents, which I know next to nothing. 

 

It just seems like other tech companies could take your ideas without it. 

 

Therefore not wise to do so without, unless you dont care! 

[Rev]

7 minutes ago, BSRSteve said:

A patent is not REQUIRED to release a product. It mostly protects you from copycats. And that appears to be a "non-final" rejection.

 

Some other comments that I can make about other things in this thread (I am limited in my ability to respond)

 

Using the potential Trademark on the game boxes and on clothing, is sufficient use to register the trademarks in those categories. The T-shirts and hats, etc that they sell can be used to register the trademarks for clothing. I am not sure of the categories the game boxes would cover.

 

The goal of the "karma engine" philosophy is to allow children to compete with teens and adults on more even footing. The original plan was for it to be optional, but also that a login to the controller could allow the game to remember abilities level from previous games. 

 

Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly.

 

If the karma is optional, that would be great!!!   

[SegaSnatcher]

8 minutes ago, BSRSteve said:

The goal of the "karma engine" philosophy is to allow children to compete with teens and adults on more even footing. The original plan was for it to be optional, but also that a login to the controller could allow the game to remember abilities level from previous games. 

 

Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly.

1. Yeah, I'm not totally against the idea of game balancing between two players with different skill levels.  It really comes down to how its implemented.  

2. I agree that handing an Xbox controller to Grandma will result in confusion, but I still feel the lack of face buttons on the Amico controller will have a negative effect on some gaming experiences.  Even two face buttons would have been nice for simple jump/shoot mechanics. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by SegaSnatcher

[Pink]

Yes, as others have said you don't need patents to release anything.

18 minutes ago, kevtris said:

Now, you cannot claim to have a patent if it isn't approved.

Looking through the archived versions of their StartEngine and Fundable campaigns, it does say this. It's definitely confusing & potentially misleading the way they phrased it. Whether they intentionally made it misleading or not, I have no idea, but the StartEngine campaign had to be manually reviewed and discussed to certify to StartEngine that all the details and info they published were accurate. They did state in their SEC filing though that the patents were pending and actually are listed under their risk factors section.

 

Patents and IP:

Omnibus patent around controller disc and Karma Gaming Engine - a game balancing technology. We have many content licensing deals, and the list is growing every month.

Intellivision | StartEngine (archive.org)

 

Patents and IP: Omnibus patent around controller disc; Karma Gaming Engine - game balancing technology. We have many content licensing deals, and the list is growing every month including Hot Wheels, Major League Baseball, Sesame Street, + more.

Intellivision | Fundable - Crowdfunding for Small Businesses (archive.org)

 

They had 20 patents total. Patents #19 and #20 Intellivision withdrew themselves.

Update: Just 1 patent with 20 claims

Edited March 26, 2022 by Pink

[kevtris]

2 minutes ago, Rev said:

Thanks for the clarification on patents, which I know next to nothing. 

 

It just seems like other tech companies could take your ideas without it. 

 

Therefore not wise to do so without, unless you dont care! 

that's true, but you can also do other things like hardware/software lockouts and such to make it more difficult.  Also, constantly improving/coming out with new stuff means everyone else is playing catch-up, so you're onto the next thing before it matters too much.  I hold a patent, and I can say it was a long, expensive process to get it that frankly wasn't worth it.  Since Intellivision seems to be pretty much out of money, they would be kind of foolish at this point to waste more money on trying to get it approved until they actually start making some.  Maybe it'd be better as a "year 2" type of thing.

 

[kevtris]

3 minutes ago, Pink said:

Yes, as others have said you don't need patents to release anything.

Looking through the archived versions of their StartEngine and Fundable campaigns, it does say this

 

They had 20 patents total. Patents #19 and #20 Intellivision withdrew themselves. They did state in their SEC filing though that the patents were pending and actually are listed under their risk factors section.

Actually it's just 1 patent, with 20 claims in the patent.  Each claim is basically a separate aspect of the thing you are wishing to protect. 

[Pink]

I stand corrected, thank you

Edited March 26, 2022 by Pink

[mr_me]

6 minutes ago, Rev said:

Thanks for the clarification on patents, which I know next to nothing. 

 

It just seems like other tech companies could take your ideas without it. 

 

Therefore not wise to do so without, unless you dont care! 

If there are things there that are patentable than they would be protected from the original filing date.  Once approved,  a company that infringes the patent before that approval could still be sued.

[ColecoJoe]

9 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

 

I think we will know more after NDAs are up. At that point will we care or be discussing the next retro brand bought by someone trying to hook gamers with nostalgia bait?

Last time someone told us they would give us the dirt after their NDA was up it turned out to be a nothing burger

Edited March 26, 2022 by ColecoJoe

[Lost Monkey]

2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

They aren't the Amico though. They are trinkets from Intellivision. Not sure how much that matters. If those worked I'd think they'd have it nailed down now. But I would have thought that of their FCC certs too.

 

Almost as if it were a ruse, good enough to fool the consumer, but not the regulator.  

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, BSRSteve said:

Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly.

I think that's giving not enough credit to older people to learn. Grandparents can and do play with such controllers. While I agree I wouldn't ship with Xbox controller, it isn't like there haven't been simple controllers in between Atari and Xbox. NES, Genesis, and SNES are all simple designs. 

 

I hope there is a consistency in all games in how you get them started/choose options/do similar tasks/ etc. Otherwise I think that will be less intuitive than a controller that has A, B, Select, Start/Pause.

 

1 hour ago, kevtris said:

Since Intellivision seems to be pretty much out of money, they would be kind of foolish at this point to waste more money on trying to get it approved until they actually start making some.  Maybe it'd be better as a "year 2" type of thing.

So parents are no problem. What are your thoughts on no FCC certs yet? If they've passed the testing as they've claimed why would they hold that back and not just go ahead and submit them?

[SegaSnatcher]

2 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I think that's giving not enough credit to older people to learn. Grandparents can and do play with such controllers. While I agree I wouldn't ship with Xbox controller, it isn't like there haven't been simple controllers in between Atari and Xbox. NES, Genesis, and SNES are all simple designs. 

 

I hope there is a consistency in all games in how you get them started/choose options/do similar tasks/ etc. Otherwise I think that will be less intuitive than a controller that has A, B, Select, Start/Pause.

 

So parents are no problem. What are your thoughts on no FCC certs yet? If they've passed the testing as they've claimed why would they hold that back and not just go ahead and submit them?

The NES controller is a perfect example of a controller anyone can pretty much pick up and understand.  Parents would play NES games with their kids back in the day and didn't seem to have much of an issue getting use to the controls. My Mom who is in now in her late 60s would play NES with us back when we first got one in like 1987/1988.  She really enjoyed Zelda and Castlevania. 

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said:

The NES controller is a perfect example of a controller anyone can pretty much pick up and understand.  Parents would play NES games with their kids back in the day and didn't seem to have much of an issue getting use to the controls. My Mom who is in now in her late 60s would play NES with us back when we first got one in like 1987/1988.  She really enjoyed Zelda and Castlevania. 

Nice. My mom enjoyed Friday the 13th. Lmao

[roots.genoa]

7 hours ago, BSRSteve said:

Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly.

What about the other way around? Using Amico controllers to play Intellivision Entertainment games on PC, consoles, and tablets?

[youxia]

10 hours ago, BSRSteve said:

The goal of the "karma engine" philosophy is to allow children to compete with teens and adults on more even footing. The original plan was for it to be optional, but also that a login to the controller could allow the game to remember abilities level from previous games.

In that use-case it makes at least some sense, but I just don't see their team to have the chops to implement something like that. "Engine" implies a software solution and it'd have to be some sort of external layer controlling things. Otherwise, if it's just a "philosophy" it means you need to tell every and each dev to bake it into their game. That's more doable, but still, the results might vary.

 

As somebody who plays games with children regularly for a living, I have to employ my own Karma Engine. It's a mixture of cheating and making deliberate mistakes to ensure I win very rarely if I'm the competitor, and it is something any adult can do too. For cases where it's kids who compete with each other and you have no way of controlling the game it could be useful, but I don't see an easy way of making it happen across multiple titles.

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, youxia said:

As somebody who plays games with children regularly for a living, I have to employ my own Karma Engine. It's a mixture of cheating and making deliberate mistakes to ensure I win very rarely if I'm the competitor, and it is something any adult can do too. For cases where it's kids who compete with each other and you have no way of controlling the game it could be useful, but I don't see an easy way of making it happen across multiple titles.

Playing with kids is easier than some make it out to be. When it is just the kids it can be harder but that is where finding a few games that are simple can help.

[number6]

17 hours ago, Lost Monkey said:

Would the trinkets in boxes they have been selling on-line be enough to complete their application - even without the finished console?

Using the same example as above, here is SOU for Amiga (clickable links within) that illustrate what such a filing contains:

Sample SOU

I should think since the game boxes illustrate use in commerce Intellivision would include those in their own SOU.

Although the packing boxes have quite a variety of tms (example:Intellivision Together Again), I do not think they could use the box alone in the same terms of commerce. After shipping perhaps.

 

#6

[Rev]

12 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Nice. My mom enjoyed Friday the 13th. Lmao

This explains alot. 
 

im kidding!   ??

[MrBeefy]

9 hours ago, Rev said:

This explains alot. 
 

im kidding!   ??

Yes I know it's a trash NES game but it's a classic with my family!