Reasons to get (or to not get) an Atari 8-bit /XL/XE?

[Koopa64]

So I already have an Apple //e and a C64 breadbin. Does the Atari 8-bit series offer anything interesting or better than what the Apple //e and C64 can do? Any exclusive games?

 

Actually, I do know of one advantage, the A8 primarily used cartridges for games. I am not much of a cartridge collector anymore so I'd go with an AtariMax cartridge.

Any disadvantages?

[CraigsBar]

Well. I bought my 130xe to play RGB a few years back. It is really good game if you like that kinda thing. Yoomp is much better on the original A8 (even better with dual pokey stereo) than the c64 port.

 

Also pole position and jet boot jack are amazing games on the A8.

 

Disadvantages.... The cost of collecting hardware for yet another retro system. Do I regret it.... Not in the slightest.

Edited April 11, 2022 by CraigsBar

[zzip]

36 minutes ago, Koopa64 said:

Actually, I do know of one advantage, the A8 primarily used cartridges for games. I am not much of a cartridge collector anymore so I'd go with an AtariMax cartridge.

I don't know that it primarily uses carts.   Seemed like disk games outnumbered cart games.

 

It does have some exclusives.   Also games that were designed on an Atari tended to look and play best on the Atari (and you could say the same about C64 and Apple too).

But it's hard to say if that makes it worth the cost and space of owning one.   That's a personal choice.

[Koopa64]

Well, do you like your Atari XL/XE or such more than the Apple //e or C64?

[+save2600]

2 hours ago, Koopa64 said:

So I already have an Apple //e and a C64 breadbin...

I'd ditch the Apple, forget about the A8, keep the C64 and purchase a 7800. ??

[Koopa64]

Really? a 7800? I thought it barely had any games, much less against the 1900+ game juggernaught that is the A8. Or has 7800 homebrew and indie development really changed that much in 10+ years?

 

Thing is, I already have a couple Atari 2600s.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Koopa64

[+save2600]

1 hour ago, Koopa64 said:

Really? a 7800? I thought it barely had any games, much less against the 1900+ game juggernaught that is the A8. Or has 7800 homebrew and indie development really changed that much in 10+ years?

Yes, the 7800 has a great scene of homebrew developers today for sure - not to mention the 2600 compatibility. And some new 7800 games are incorporating Pokey too. I'm sure you're aware of the various Flash carts for the C64, but there are now flashcarts for the 7800 as well.

[Koopa64]

Hmm, good to know, thanks. I got an SD2IEC and a Kung Fu Flash so I think I'm pretty well covered for the C64.

 

I take it one would need a 7800 flash cart that has a Pokey chip in it?

[CraigsBar]

12 minutes ago, Koopa64 said:

Well, do you like your Atari XL/XE or such more than the Apple //e or C64?

Well the Amstrad CPC 464 was my childhood machine so I will always have a fondness for that. Beyond that I appreciate all the machines I have for what they are. And now I have a lot....

Amstrad CPC464, CPC6128, 464plus, 6128plus, GX4000.

Atari 130xe, 7800

Commodore C128, C64, Amiga 600, Amiga 1200

MSX (Sony hitbit) and MSX2 (Philips NMS8250)

Sinclair speccy 128k toastrack, Grey +2

MGT Sam Coupe

Timex Sinclair TC2048

Acorn Electron, BBC Master 128k

Compaq 486DX4 75mhz

Sega, Sony and Nintendo consoles and handhelds etc

 

Do I have a favourite.... No, at the moment I have my MSX2+ FPGA clone out for use.

 

[+save2600]

2 hours ago, Koopa64 said:

I take it one would need a 7800 flash cart that has a Pokey chip in it?

..yes, Concerto is one such cart. And there's another one on the horizon from flashcart developer SainT here too.

[Koopa64]

 

4 minutes ago, save2600 said:

..yes, Concerto is one such cart. And there's another one on the horizon from flashcart developer SainT here too. I'll uodate with links if I'm not beaten to it.  

 

Hmm, any particular 7800 homebrew and indie games you like or can recommend?

 

4 minutes ago, CraigsBar said:

Well the Amstrad CPC 464 was my childhood machine so I will always have a fondness for that. Beyond that I appreciate all the machines I have for what they are. And now I have a lot....

Amstrad CPC464, CPC6128, 464plus, 6128plus, GX4000.

Atari 130xe, 7800

Commodore C128, C64, Amiga 600, Amiga 1200

MSX (Sony hitbit) and MSX2 (Philips NMS8250)

Sinclair speccy 128k toastrack, Grey +2

MGT Sam Coupe

Timex Sinclair TC2048

Acorn Electron, BBC Master 128k

Compaq 486DX4 75mhz

Sega, Sony and Nintendo consoles and handhelds etc

 

Do I have a favourite.... No, at the moment I have my MSX2+ FPGA clone out for use.

 

That's a very impressive assortment of computers, I guess the Amstrad really is your favorite.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Koopa64

[+save2600]

15 hours ago, Koopa64 said:

Hmm, any particular 7800 homebrew and indie games you like or can recommend?

That's easy... almost every single game anyone's bothered to release on cart and then some! ha  Seriously. You want to play some 'definitive' arcade type ports or unique games on an Atari machine? The 7800 is where it's at today. Some highlights:

 

Baby Pac-Man

Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest

Crazy Brix

Donkey Kong PK (Arcade)

Dungeon Stalker

Pac-Man Collection

Popeye

Rikki & Vikki

Scramble

Super Circus Atari Age

Super Pac-Man

T:me Salvo

...just to name a few. More on the way soon, and several already done that I'm not super familiar with yet, but can be found in the 7800 programming forum or AA Store.

 

 

[CraigsBar]

11 minutes ago, Koopa64 said:

 

 

Hmm, any particular 7800 homebrew and indie games you like or can recommend?

Scramble is excellent

11 minutes ago, Koopa64 said:

 

That's a very impressive assortment of computers, I guess the Amstrad really is your favorite.

It depends what I fancy playing. The Sam coupe is the first choice for Prince of Persia or Battlezone, the Amiga for slam tilt pinball, the Amstrad plus for Pang, the CPC for chase HQ, turrican has to be C64, for the A8, RGB, Yoomp, Jet Boot Jack, Pole Position. MSX2 for Columns, Ghost and puyo puyo.

 

They all have best games. No one platform is king. Or my favourite.

[Tillek]

Or...

 

Start playing games on an emulator.  When you get to the point where you say "this sucks... I wish I was playing on real hardware".... Buy real hardware.

 

Why do people over-complicate simple life decisions...?

 

(But seriously... you come to an Atari forum asking if it is worth getting one... you've already decided to buy one and you're just trying to get help justifying it when your wife finds out, right?)

 

 

[Mr Robot]

Reason to get one: you want one.

Reason not to get one: you don't want one. 

 

If you were in Europe the 8-bits were primarily cassette based, like the C64 was. In the US it was primarily Disk based. Carts were expensive and there were far fewer 3rd party cart titles than magnetic media titles.

 

Don't get an Atarimax cart, get an Ultimate/Side/AVG cart.

 

+1 for Tillek's comment. Emulate until you decide if it's for you or not. 

 

[+Cafeman]

8 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

Don't get an Atarimax cart, get an Ultimate/Side/AVG cart.

Reasons why? 

[gilsaluki]

2 hours ago, Koopa64 said:

So I already have an Apple //e and a C64 breadbin. Does the Atari 8-bit series offer anything interesting or better than what the Apple //e and C64 can do? Any exclusive games?

 

Actually, I do know of one advantage, the A8 primarily used cartridges for games. I am not much of a cartridge collector anymore so I'd go with an AtariMax cartridge.

Any disadvantages?

One disadvantage.  Collecting Atari can be to the detriment of your personal relations with your spousal unit.  And your wallet.  Other than that, it's great!  DBM, A. 

[Atari8guy]

The A8 has significantly more than 1900 games. See Atarimania's A8 section. Tillek is right though try out an emulator and see if you like them. Atarimax vs the newer AVG and SIDE 2/3 carts - the newer carts are far more versatile and hold many more games. Having said that I've always liked the Atarimax carts and for a long time they where the only option. But my AVG gets regular use my Atarimax not at all these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tillek]

3 minutes ago, Cafeman said:

Reasons why? 

Ok... this is one of those questions you NEVER ask.

 

Why?  Because you will get as many answers as people responding.  Everyone has their favorite, and while they can all give you a laundry list of answers why their recommendation is the only real recommendation, the "real" answer tends to be "that's the one I like".

 

The problem with that answer... most of these people will give you their "opinion" without any regard as to how YOU intend to use it (vs how THEY use it).

 

Like, for example... I'd almost tell someone not to even consider a SIDE if they aren't going to get an Ultimate 1mb.  However, if you have one, or intend to get one, it's almost a given that this is a way to go (if you're only going to get one) because it offers a lot of flexibility.  Thing is, people tend to suggest without asking.

 

So maybe I should revise my first statement.

 

Feel free to ask, but first explain what you're looking for.  There is a big difference between wanting to run cart images, vs being able to mount ATR files from a FAT32 partition on a card.... SD vs CF?  (I have 2 SIDE-3s and 1 SIDE-2 and I use my SIDE2 and MyIDE ][ on my "daily driver" because I prefer CF cards whenever I can - the SIDE3s are for specific projects).  Actually, I'd kill for a CF version of a SIDE-3

 

(They're a little bigger, so I tend to drop them less and when I do, they're easier to find and pick up off the floor.... I'm not as young as I used to be). => Cuz someone always asks why!?!?!?!

 

 

[Keatah]

2 hours ago, Koopa64 said:

So I already have an Apple //e and a C64 breadbin. Does the Atari 8-bit series offer anything interesting or better than what the Apple //e and C64 can do? Any exclusive games?

Star Raiders and about a thousand more. Exclusive games isn't always a great indicator of how good a platform is. It's how well the ports and conversions and remakes are done. Take for example, DEFENDER. I wouldn't want to play it on anything but the Atari 400/800 rigs. All other ports and conversions seem less vibrant. And the arcade cab is way too difficult.

 

All the early computers, are, well, early. They all have a unique individual flavor that takes time and hands-on experience to fully appreciate.

 

2 hours ago, Koopa64 said:

Any disadvantages?

All vintage systems are old. And sooner or later you're going to need to do some technical work on them. May be as simple as cleaning switches and connectors, or re-capping. May be as complex as component-level troubleshooting to find one bad IC out of a sea of 50 or more.

 

When one gets tired or frustrated with repairs and more repairs, emulation is the next step up in the evolution of classic gaming. You start with a base of reliable hardware that's always going to work. And if it decides not to, you just throw it away and get new shit.

[Mr Robot]

22 minutes ago, Cafeman said:

Reasons why? 

Because an Atarimax cart is flash memory, needs special hardware and software to flash it and has a fixed size (1MB). The other carts are all multicarts that use SD for storage so will hold everything at once, need no special hardware or software other than a pc that can see fat32 and don't need to convert anything to make it compatible before you can use it. 

 

@Tillek no opinions about which is the best, just my justification for rejecting Atarimax, which is what I was asked for. 

 

 

[Keatah]

2 hours ago, save2600 said:

I'd ditch the Apple, forget about the A8, keep the C64 and purchase a 7800. ??

I'd ditch them all and go emulation. Since getting rid of all my consoles and computers, except for Apple II and PC, my enjoyment of the hobby has skyrocketed away from what I was doing before. It was like entering a new era of prosperity and reliability! No space-consuming frustration. No intermittent controllers. Perfect display geometry with a flavoring of dialed-in NTSC/RF distortion.

 

I do PC because of necessity and some sentimental value.

I do Apple II because it's all sentimental and nostalgic good times.

I do emulation because it's elegant on so many levels.

[Mr Robot]

31 minutes ago, Keatah said:

I do Apple II because it's all sentimental and nostalgic good times.

That's why I do Atari and Amiga. I emulate everything else. 

 

[Keatah]

Over the years I found the best balance is 1-4 sentimental physical systems, and everything else emulated. I used to believe 2 platforms were my sweet spot. But there were 2 more I kept re-visiting over time - though these other two are tiny ecospheres and easily fit in a large box. Complete with software and accessories.

 

I can easily and joyfully maintain that low amount without it becoming all-consuming. Space, time, money, all that, all that is valuable at any age.. This low number of rigs gives a good flavour of the past, especially since it's my original childhood and gradeschool stuff.

 

Emulation fills in all the other machines and gaps. Emulation lends a sense of modern sophistication full of enhancements and convenience. Emulation will also allow you to experience so many other platforms that are out of reach or utterly impractical. Woot!

Edited April 12, 2022 by Keatah

[Peruchi]

I think emulation is the way to go if you want to know more about the system. Then, if you're really interested, I would suggest the 576NUC+ as the best hardware choice, considering its small size, new electronics, and good cost.