First post, first 800XL, advice on cleaning?

[iscariot]

Hi everybody.  I just got an Atari 800xl.  I think that it's in pretty good shape but all that I have is the power supply.  I went on Amazon and found a cable that I can use for video and audio and it will be here tomorrow.  I am thinking about buying a multicart or something because this is mostly for me to play games I had on my 5200.  I want to clean it up some though.  So far I have tried cleaning it up with 91% IPA and I have had good results but there's some stubborn marks on the top.  I attached a picture and you can see some stains or something around the cartridge port.  It looks pretty light, is it worth trying to retrobrite it?

[Beeblebrox]

@iscariot  congrats. I think that will clean up well. 

 

With AtariAge (AA) you are in the right place. Amazing resources and a wealth of accumulated knowledge and experience.. It's also a great time to get into the A8 as great games and ports over the last year. (We have Prince of Persia on the A8 now!!!) 

 

There are two pinned topics at the top of AA, one on restoration of these great machines, and the other a newbie section. They should give you a good grounding and some tips, including the various cart and external storage device options including the much loved SIDE3 and AVG carts, as well as Sdrive, Sio2pc, and others.

 

 BTW I often initially use anti-bac wipes to get any obvious grim off the casing. 

 

One thing, are you based in the States and what Power supply have you got? If in doubt snap a photo of the psu and post it up here. There is a particular US Atari psu called known as the ingot psu which can potentially fry your Atari. 

 

Do you know if this is a PAL or NTSC machine? 

 

Also, what video cable have you got coming? Presumably a composite one? 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[+Philsan]

I suggest you read Topic for newbies or veterans returning to Atari.

[iscariot]

Thanks Beeblebrox, I went and was looking around and decided to order an AVG Multicart as well.  As for the power supply, it's a big, black brick with a sticker that says "For use on Atari 600xl Atari 800xl" and DV-512CM on the underside.  It's massive, and when I say brick, I mean that it is the size of a brick.  As far as what it is, it should be NTSC as I'm in the USA.  For cables I just got this thing:  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09W4Y1WJR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

And I plugged it in and got a picture, albeit the colors on the connector are wrong(the white one is composite video, the black one is audio) and it looks ok.  I read that you can combine two of those connections into svideo but I don't have anything that can handle svideo right now.  I do have an OSSC so I might go with rgb or something like that later on.  

 

[Beeblebrox]

@iscariot  if you want to use s-video at present it will likely be a black and white/grayscale output until you hook up the chroma internally. (Unless you have an 800XLF with a Freddie chip which is unlikely). Most stock 800XLs came out of the factory without the chroma line installed. The hook up is very simple if you are ok using a soldering iron. I am out and about at the moment but I am sure someone can link you to the info. 

 

PSU wise as you are States side double check it isn't an ingot power supply. Search for ingot on AA and you'll find a pic as all old psus could be described as bricks. ? A good few XLs have been fried due to this psu apparently. 

 

AVG is a very good choice I am told. Don't own one myself. 

 

[TGB1718]

Check this:-

Ingot circled

 

Considering we all know this PSU is a killer, would be nice if this could be pinned somewhere as the first thing you see as a new/coming back user.

[iscariot]

2 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

Check this:-

Ingot circled

 

Considering we all know this PSU is a killer, would be nice if this could be pinned somewhere as the first thing you see as a new/coming back user.

TGB1718, that's not the PSU that I have.  The one I have is the great big black rectangle in the bottom left.  Is that one ok?

[iscariot]

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

@iscariot  if you want to use s-video at present it will likely be a black and white/grayscale output until you hook up the chroma internally. (Unless you have an 800XLF with a Freddie chip which is unlikely). Most stock 800XLs came out of the factory without the chroma line installed. The hook up is very simple if you are ok using a soldering iron. I am out and about at the moment but I am sure someone can link you to the info. 

 

PSU wise as you are States side double check it isn't an ingot power supply. Search for ingot on AA and you'll find a pic as all old psus could be described as bricks. ? A good few XLs have been fried due to this psu apparently. 

 

AVG is a very good choice I am told. Don't own one myself. 

 

AVG?  You mean power supply?  I'll look into the connection for the chroma.  I plugged in another wire to the video connection and I got a bunch of vertical bars so I'm guessing that luma.  There a guide here to do the mod?  What about the connector?  I searched and there's a link but when I follow it, I get a notice that the page isn't there

Edited April 30, 2022 by iscariot
more info

[TGB1718]

28 minutes ago, iscariot said:

TGB1718, that's not the PSU that I have.  The one I have is the great big black rectangle in the bottom left.  Is that one ok?

If that's your "brick", it certainly looks ok

 

Here's a link to my own question about s-video fix, it has the solution kindly provided by @xrbrevin

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

6 hours ago, iscariot said:

AVG?  You mean power supply?  I'll look into the connection for the chroma.  I plugged in another wire to the video connection and I got a bunch of vertical bars so I'm guessing that luma.  There a guide here to do the mod?  What about the connector?  I searched and there's a link but when I follow it, I get a notice that the page isn't there

Sorry don't know what you mean re avg. I was saying good choice re buying avg. 

 

Re restoring svideo, of you don't have an 800xl with a Freddie chip the see here:

 

 

[iscariot]

I hooked it up via the composite video port on my LCD tv.  I don't have svideo.  Should I do something to clean up the video?  It has pretty bad artifacts.  Is there anything other than the Sofia or the UAV board?

 

[cwilbar]

On 5/1/2022 at 1:37 PM, iscariot said:

I hooked it up via the composite video port on my LCD tv.  I don't have svideo.  Should I do something to clean up the video?  It has pretty bad artifacts.  Is there anything other than the Sofia or the UAV board?

 

There are multiple mods.... different revisions of SuperVideo, ClearPic, and of course UAV.  I've been pretty impressed with UAV.  I have not yet installed my Sophia, nor have I tried SuperVideo or ClearPic.  Others with broader experience can chime in.  Composite is the 'lowest' quality, s-video being better, and with Sophia and HDMI the best (though I have not experienced it personally yet).

 

The other big thing is cable quality.  The cable to get is the Hercules cables.  (search the forums, you'll find a lengthy discussion)  How much that alone will help on just composite I can't say, but with s-video I've read it makes a big difference when connected to modern displays.

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

Just to add to Cwilbar's comments using a decent double shielded cable like the Hercules for S-video does make a difference compared with an unshielded S-video cable.

 

Also in addition to the Supervideo and clearpic modifications, if running S-video off a modern LCD there is the well known stock 800XL C54 capacitor removal/bypass trick I detail here which will further clean up and eliminate interferance/crosstalk from the Composite. Removing C54 essentially turns off the composite circult. Makes a massive difference on the 800XL. I now install switches to turn the C54 on and off in my 800XLs. (Having a switch allows the XL to retain composite capability should it be required).

 

Case in point:

 

C54 capacitor disabled - no jailbar/zigzags/checkerboard:

        

 

 

C54 engaged, jailbars/zigzags return, but composite circuit available to use again:

          

 

 

[flashjazzcat]

On 4/30/2022 at 3:52 AM, iscariot said:

It looks pretty light, is it worth trying to retrobrite it?

Soapy warm water and a soft scrubbing brush. The case doesn't really look 'yellowed' at all, just dirty. Just take all the metal trim off and get the plastic in the sink, then see what you end up with.

 

[iscariot]

Thanks, I don't have anything that can handle SVIDEO.  I thought that it couldn't do it out of the box b/c one of the pins was disabled or something.  In any case, I'm using this cable:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09W4Y1WJR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And that is what is causing the noise, and I'm connecting it via the composite connector.

Edited May 4, 2022 by iscariot
Additional info

[cwilbar]

1 hour ago, iscariot said:

Thanks, I don't have anything that can handle SVIDEO.  I thought that it couldn't do it out of the box b/c one of the pins was disabled or something.  In any case, I'm using this cable:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09W4Y1WJR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And that is what is causing the noise, and I'm connecting it via the composite connector.

What are you using for a display.  Clearly it has composite input.  If it is a modern TV, some have better composite input than others, especially in relation to '240p' video.

 

If you have an HDMI input, you could either go with a Sophia upgrade to get a great picture, or you could do the s-video cap trick, and use good cables and a scan doubler like the retrotink to convert the s-video to HDMI.  Not as sharp as Sophia, but should provide a nice picture (plus you could use the retrotink to connect other devices up to the same monitor (not at the same time)). 

 

Other than that, if you are sticking with composite, a UAV will probably net you the best picture.  Second to that would probably be one of the supervideo or clearpic modifications.

 

 

[iscariot]

5 hours ago, cwilbar said:

What are you using for a display.  Clearly it has composite input.  If it is a modern TV, some have better composite input than others, especially in relation to '240p' video.

 

If you have an HDMI input, you could either go with a Sophia upgrade to get a great picture, or you could do the s-video cap trick, and use good cables and a scan doubler like the retrotink to convert the s-video to HDMI.  Not as sharp as Sophia, but should provide a nice picture (plus you could use the retrotink to connect other devices up to the same monitor (not at the same time)). 

 

Other than that, if you are sticking with composite, a UAV will probably net you the best picture.  Second to that would probably be one of the supervideo or clearpic modifications.

 

 

Right now I'm using a Toshiba 720p LED tv.  I also have a CRT I can try plugging into as well.  Where can I get the Sophia?

[+David_P]

1 hour ago, iscariot said:

Right now I'm using a Toshiba 720p LED tv.  I also have a CRT I can try plugging into as well.  Where can I get the Sophia?

Sophia is a year or two out due to limited supplies of the necessary chip, unfortunately.

[cwilbar]

The only chance you would have of getting a Sophia is to find one that someone purchased and hasn't installed (and is willing to let go of it).  Sadly the chip shortage (as @David_P indicated above) has impacted even our retro community's projects.

 

UAVs are not hard to install and coupled with a retrotink would give you hdmi. 

 

There was a previous Sophia version (version 1) that had specific versions for RGB and 2 HDMI (DVI) versions (for different resolution panels) but I wouldn't think @Simius has any of those left since the Sophia 2 came out.

 

 

 

 

[mimo]

Regarding the cleaning, I put my new acquisitions in the dishwasher, making sure to remove them before the dry cycle .

Always had great results

[iscariot]

Well I got a Luma/Chroma to s-video and plugged it into another tv I found with svideo....it looks cleaner but don't I need to solder a pin or something to get it working on the XL?  I'm expecting a get a cartridge or two today so I can do something besides stare at the test screen.

[Beeblebrox]

31 minutes ago, iscariot said:

Well I got a Luma/Chroma to s-video and plugged it into another tv I found with svideo....it looks cleaner but don't I need to solder a pin or something to get it working on the XL?  I'm expecting a get a cartridge or two today so I can do something besides stare at the test screen.

@iscariot  Yup see my post #10 above to hook up the chroma on an 800XL for colour on and S-video connection, and post #13 re removing/(or adding a switch) re the C54 capacitor to remove the composite interference.

[iscariot]

9 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

@iscariot  Yup see my post #10 above to hook up the chroma on an 800XL for colour on and S-video connection, and post #13 re removing/(or adding a switch) re the C54 capacitor to remove the composite interference.

Thanks.  I really need to not look at this on my mobile phone .  I tried plugging things in with the video cable that I got, along with an RCA->Svideo converter(1 luma, 1 croma connection) to an SVIDEO and I think that there's a crossed wire, b/c I get color info on two different cables.  I think i need to order one of those UAV boards or something.

[Beeblebrox]

@iscariot   UAV is good but you don't technically need it to get S-video running on an 800XL. Not sure why you are using the RCA to S-video converter mind. Just get a DIN to S-video cable from Hercules workshop, do the Chroma hook up, (dead easy), and the C54 switch/(or removal if you don't want composite anymore), and you'll have your S-video connection.

 

There are other tweaks to get the image even better but those are good starters.

 

Even if you get the UAV and plumb it it you'll still then ideally want to get a DIN to S-video cable anyway. Hercules workshop do the best IMHO (and many other user's opinions), owing to them being double shielded.

 

Yup - reading on mobile phone ain't the best.

 

BTW for wht it's worth I have a UAV in one of my 800XLs, and for all the others I've done these mods. Happy with both options as displays.

[iscariot]

7 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

@iscariot   UAV is good but you don't technically need it to get S-video running on an 800XL. Not sure why you are using the RCA to S-video converter mind. Just get a DIN to S-video cable from Hercules workshop, do the Chroma hook up, (dead easy), and the C54 switch/(or removal if you don't want composite anymore), and you'll have your S-video connection.

 

There are other tweaks to get the image even better but those are good starters.

 

Even if you get the UAV and plumb it it you'll still then ideally want to get a DIN to S-video cable anyway. Hercules workshop do the best IMHO (and many other user's opinions), owing to them being double shielded.

 

Yup - reading on mobile phone ain't the best.

 

BTW for wht it's worth I have a UAV in one of my 800XLs, and for all the others I've done these mods. Happy with both options as displays.

 

When I say RCA to SVIDEO I mean that it's one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K768YD1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

So I've got that hooked into the plugs from this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09W4Y1WJR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

These are cables I had laying around but you get the idea.  I'm likely going to have to order one of those anyway, but I want one that does composite and svideo together.  My plan is to use the composite so I can plug this into my 70 inch tv since the only tv I have that has svideo is this little unit I have for testing.