8K Super Cart for Finalgrom99?

[jrhodes]

I am getting into adventure games on real hardware (console+tipi+finalgrom99), and i notice some of them like leather goddess of phobos need a Super Cart.

Is there a pre-made Super Cart image i can drop onto my FG99 sd card to play the games that need one?

[+arcadeshopper]

FinalGrom99 doesn't do supercart

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[jrhodes]

Bummer, guess i won't be playing them on my FG99 then.

[+arcadeshopper]

Bummer, guess i won't be playing them on my FG99 then.

If you need a supercart@GDMike had some for sale and I have bare pcbs in my store to make your own

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[Reciprocating Bill]

I know this has come up before - but I'm not sure I've ever understood the whys and wherefores. 

 

The FinalGrom can emulate MiniMemory, with it's GROMs, 4K of ROM and 4K of RAM. So what prevents it from emulating the SuperCart, with E/A GROMs and 8K RAM?  

 

Edit: BTW, I don't refer to the battery back up. Just the RAM available when it is plugged in.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Reciprocating Bill

[jrhodes]

15 minutes ago, arcadeshopper said:

If you need a supercart@GDMike had some for sale and I have bare pcbs in my store to make your own

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

Not interested in a physical super cart. I just was hoping to use FG99 as a super cart.

I'll just have to play the handful of games that need via emulation.

[+arcadeshopper]

I know this has come up before - but I'm not sure I've ever understood the whys and wherefores. 
 
The FinalGrom can emulate MiniMemory, with it's GROMs, 4K of ROM and 4K of RAM. So what prevents it from emulating the SuperCart, with E/A GROMs and 8K RAM?  
 
Edit: BTW, I don't refer to the battery back up. Just the RAM available when it is plugged in.

The design

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[RXB]

24 minutes ago, Reciprocating Bill said:

I know this has come up before - but I'm not sure I've ever understood the whys and wherefores. 

 

The FinalGrom can emulate MiniMemory, with it's GROMs, 4K of ROM and 4K of RAM. So what prevents it from emulating the SuperCart, with E/A GROMs and 8K RAM?  

 

Edit: BTW, I don't refer to the battery back up. Just the RAM available when it is plugged in.

FinalGROM has 4K >6000 to >6FFF as ROM only and 4K RAM from >7000 to >7FFF 

Thus SUPERCART is all 8K RAM from >6000 to >7FFF that is why it can not emulate a supercart without major modifications.

 

The other option for FinalGROM is all ROM banks of 8K like XB carts.

[Reciprocating Bill]

1 hour ago, arcadeshopper said:

The design

I see. 

[+acadiel]

Couldn’t you put the FG into RAM/GRAM mode and map up to 512K of RaM/GRAM? You could toss the EA GROM in GRAM and the RAM 8K space should be available for a SC?

But the FinalGROM 99 also offers two advanced modes that emulate advanced cartridge types that did not exist previously:[R] RAM Mode: provides up to 512 KB of ROM and 512 KB of RAM[G] GRAM Mode: turns occupied GROM into writable GRAM[X] RAM/GRAM Mode: provides both RAM and GRAMTo enable one of these modes for a specific image, put character R, G or X at image offset 3, also known as "reserved" byte. For legacy images, you may use a Hex Editor to modify the fourth byte. For new images, your GPL header would start likeaorg >6000data >aa01byte >00, 'R'  ; activate RAM modeNote that each image type can use only certain modes, e.g., a ROM-only mode cannot use GRAM mode.

[Reciprocating Bill]

From the documentation it appears that while up to 512k of RAM can be made available in the RAM mode, it must be paged in to >7000 4K at a time (along with 4K of ROM at >6000.) While that would seem to have all sorts of potential, it never presents 8K RAM simultaneously to the module port, as does a SuperCart. Makes me wonder too if that can include an E/A GROM image at the same time. Heck, just the loader would do. 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Reciprocating Bill

[+acadiel]

From the documentation it appears that while up to 512k of RAM can be made available in the RAM mode, it must be paged in to >7000 4K at a time (along with 4K of ROM at >6000.) While that would seem to have all sorts of potential, it never presents 8K RAM simultaneously to the module port, as does a SuperCart. Makes me wonder too if that can include an E/A GROM image at the same time. Heck, just the loader would do. 
 

That sounds like a simple update to the microcontroller - either “mini memory” mode or “full 8K mode”. Just gotta find someone who can do that with the Git repo code and we can just reflash and boom….


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[+InsaneMultitasker]

8 hours ago, jrhodes said:

am getting into adventure games on real hardware (console+tipi+finalgrom99), and i notice some of them like leather goddess of phobos need a Super Cart.

Is there a pre-made Super Cart image i can drop onto my FG99 sd card to play the games that need one?

The updated interpreter for games like LGOP should work with the FG99, once released, with 4k ram mode.  I originally started testing using the Mini Memory cartridge, since it too has 4k RAM.   "Real life" stuff got in the way of that project for a bit, but I will get back to it.

[HOME AUTOMATION]

1 hour ago, acadiel said:

That sounds like a simple update to the microcontroller - either “mini memory” mode or “full 8K mode”. Just gotta find someone who can do that with the Git repo code and we can just reflash and boom….


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Supercarts use CRU, switching ...But, the FinalGrom 99s, board has no provision for the connections.

 

 

[+arcadeshopper]

Supercarts use CRU, switching ...But, the FinalGrom 99s, board has no provision for the connections.[emoji20]
 
 

Only if it has more than one 8k bank?

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[HOME AUTOMATION]

Good point! Yeah, Maybe it could do one bank of 8K ...with a new update.

Maybe even a few pages, if a couple addresses remained ROM-only.

[wierd_w]

nonstandard bank switch, using "write on GROM" ?

[+OLD CS1]

37 minutes ago, HOME AUTOMATION said:

Supercarts use CRU, switching ...But, the FinalGrom 99s, board has no provision for the connections.

I think you are thinking of the SuperSpace modules.

[HOME AUTOMATION]

4 hours ago, Reciprocating Bill said:

From the documentation it appears that while up to 512k of RAM can be made available in the RAM mode, it must be paged in to >7000 4K at a time (along with 4K of ROM at >6000.) While that would seem to have all sorts of potential, it never presents 8K RAM simultaneously to the module port, as does a SuperCart. Makes me wonder too if that can include an E/A GROM image at the same time. Heck, just the loader would do. 

 

This image is set for ROM/RAM, GROM... and includes E/A GROM.

32K ROM/RAM, plus 40K GROM=72K. You could use the remaining GROM slots as well. 

Could be expanded to 960K, ROM/RAM, plus 40K, GROM/GRAM.

 

grm3055G.BIN

 

grm3055C.BIN

 

 

  

Edited May 23, 2022 by HOME AUTOMATION

[+acadiel]

Supercarts use CRU, switching ...But, the FinalGrom 99s, board has no provision for the connections.[emoji20]
 
 

Not for an 8K one. That’s just flat into the address space.

[+videofx]

Is there a list of games that use the Supercart?

 

Just got me one and I would like to play

 

Thanks!

[Bill R Sullivan]

12 hours ago, HOME AUTOMATION said:

This image is set for ROM/RAM, GROM... and includes E/A GROM.

32K ROM/RAM, plus 40K GROM=72K. You could use the remaining GROM slots as well. 

Could be expanded to 960K, ROM/RAM, plus 40K, GROM/GRAM.

 

grm3055G.BIN 40 kB · 2 downloads

 

grm3055C.BIN 32 kB · 2 downloads

 

 

  

Yes, I can certainly live with just GROM1 and GROM2 available.

[RXB]

I think the issue with using >7000 to >7FFF for RAM in FinalGROM is you need a Trampoline area to switch the pages.

How I did it was use this from GPL I do a XML to the ROM/RAM and use this to return to XB, but could be used for Assembly too.

 

***********************************************************
       AORG >7FFA
PAGER  CLR  @>6000       * RESTORE PAGE ONE
       B    *R9          * return to caller   

Using this will always return to the first page in FinalGROM.

Of course I use R9 but you can change this to any register you want.

And you need this small routine on every page at top. 

 

This would be great for making a Console only Cart for the TI99/4A all Assembly using only the FinalGROM.

Very much like I am doing with RXB.

 

[Bill R Sullivan]

9 hours ago, RXB said:

I think the issue with using >7000 to >7FFF for RAM in FinalGROM is you need a Trampoline area to switch the pages.

How I did it was use this from GPL I do a XML to the ROM/RAM and use this to return to XB, but could be used for Assembly too.

 

***********************************************************
       AORG >7FFA
PAGER  CLR  @>6000       * RESTORE PAGE ONE
       B    *R9          * return to caller   

Using this will always return to the first page in FinalGROM.

Of course I use R9 but you can change this to any register you want.

And you need this small routine on every page at top. 

 

This would be great for making a Console only Cart for the TI99/4A all Assembly using only the FinalGROM.

Very much like I am doing with RXB.

 

 

Thanks, this makes it very easy for most everyone, including me

 

RetroBill (fdos).

[HOME AUTOMATION]

On 5/23/2022 at 2:26 PM, RXB said:

How I did it was use this from GPL I do a XML to the ROM/RAM and use this to return to XB, but could be used for Assembly too.

 

***********************************************************
       AORG >7FFA
PAGER  CLR  @>6000       * RESTORE PAGE ONE
       B    *R9          * return to caller   

 

If you are running the code above, from FG99's, address range of(>6000->7FFF), and you're getting back to GPL, I'm afraid it's a fluke!

Meaning that, some unintended code is running first, and eventually happens to do a RETURN or other type of branch, back into GPL.

 

When this code runs from FG99 ...as soon as the CLR @>6000 is executed ...the page changes ...thus, the next instruction that executes, will not be the B *R9

...but instead, the next address that executes(or attempts to, if it does not contain a valid op-code), will be on PAGE ZERO.

 

Also, PAGE 1, is the second page, accessed by writing to >6002.