cschell Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 My guess is that the flash in the KK is good for 100,000 writes. Yes, thats also what I think. The 10000 is the absolute minimum that is guaranteed, but in reality they survive much longer. Well, if the part is actually rated at 10,000 writes, it probably won't reliably reach 100,000 (or they'd give it that rating.) But it will still likely reach considerably more than 10,000, which is probably plenty all by itself. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 ...unless you write games Heck, I go through a couple thousand revisions per game just hacking 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschell Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 ...unless you write games Heck, I go through a couple thousand revisions per game just hacking 'em. Well there's always emulators, Superchargers, and (if you can find them) Cuttle Carts if you really do make frequent writes. Or just straight eprom emulators plugged into a board that does the bankswitching of your choice. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 ...unless you write games Heck, I go through a couple thousand revisions per game just hacking 'em. Well there's always emulators, Superchargers, and (if you can find them) Cuttle Carts if you really do make frequent writes. Or just straight eprom emulators plugged into a board that does the bankswitching of your choice. Chad For what it's worth, my recent efforts have been developed exclusively on the Krokodile Kart, and I cycle it through download/power many many times a day. I've been using it for a few months, at least 1000 write cycles in all, and in the early days using all of the 512K. These days I use a much smaller binary size -- but still, have had no problems at all. Cheers A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Before you say flash rom is not a good choice: What is better than flash memory pure RAM: game lost after power down. timekeeper/zeropower RAM: very large package size, very expensive and I could not get a device larger than 32K. Will only be able to hold its data for a few years, then fail. MRAM: not available for krokodiles, yet Memory cards together with menu system and RAM: Better, but would have made the design much more complicated and expensive. parallel EEPROM: far too expensive in 512K size. So there were 2 possible ways to go: memory card or flash-rom. I chose flash ROM, because: * less expensive * can be produced at home (so I can make more any time) * cart can exactly behave like the original cart (instant on) disadvantage: If you are unlucky, you may have to pay 5$ for every additional 10000 writes to the cart. A question of taste, if you ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Even for the developer, who may download quite often (Thomas!) we have invented this incremental download feature, which will only change parts that really need to be changed. This is also a good way to make it survive longer My biggest concern would be, that if fails too late and I cannot find any replacement chips anymore. I really don't think too many people are going to run into this limit, if anyone at all. And even should the part fail, I don't think it'll be a problem to find another--you can still find new 2732s for a few dollars, and those parts are, what, nearly 30 years old? ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I really don't think too many people are going to run into this limit, if anyone at all. And even should the part fail, I don't think it'll be a problem to find another--you can still find new 2732s for a few dollars, and those parts are, what, nearly 30 years old? Maybe you should offer extra reserve labels for those people who are really afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagasian Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Here is a solution: buy more than one Krokcart! That way you help fund modern Atari 2600 development, and you can keep one mint in box while you play with the other. I thought all collectors do this. Also, prioritize your dream list of 2600 games that you would like to play and play and master/complete the flashed set of games before you flash the next set. If you want more than one set of games to play at a time, that means you will have to buy more Krokcarts. Rememer, you should never shy away from paying for Atari 2600 hardware that is being developed these days. The more you buy, the more it encourages future Atari 2600 development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Did the Krok Carts ship out the 15th? I'm getting antsy!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Did the Krok Carts ship out the 15th?I'm getting antsy!! LOL I sent them to Albert last friday. They should arrive at AtariAge very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I just noticed this requires a power adapter. Is that just for transferring, just for playing, or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 I just noticed this requires a power adapter. Is that just for transferring, just for playing, or both? It is only for transferring. You can use a 2600 adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Did the Krok Carts ship out the 15th?I'm getting antsy!! LOL No, they have not shipped out yet. Just wiating for the carts to arrive from Germany (hope they arrive today or tomorrow!), then I will apply the labels to all the carts and get the first batch on their way. The manuals are done (just need to be printed, which will happen this weekend), and we're finishing up the CDs as well. Email was sent out yesterday to everyone who's pre-ordered the Krokodile Cart, with more detailed information. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I just noticed this requires a power adapter. Is that just for transferring, just for playing, or both? Only for transfering, but it even works without too when the cart is plugged into the VCS (though theoretically that might damage your console). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 and we're finishing up the CDs as well How is the Java version of the software coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 and we're finishing up the CDs as well How is the Java version of the software coming? This is low priority for me, so don't hold your breath. If there's enough demand, it will happen quicker -- but I'm having too much fun with another project right now. Cheers A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK-47 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Id like to see it happen. I already ordered one, and ive recently been trying to stay away from windows. But anyway, good luck on your other projects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 This is low priority for me, so don't hold your breath. Well, maybe someone else will take up the challenge. Thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 and we're finishing up the CDs as well How is the Java version of the software coming? This is low priority for me, so don't hold your breath. If there's enough demand, it will happen quicker -- but I'm having too much fun with another project right now. I'm hope you're able to find some time to do it at some point, as I'd really like to see a Java version I can use from OS X. However, I understand that your current project(s) are more interesting than doing a Java version of the Krokodile Commander software. If you're not able to do it, I may have to port it to Java at some point (or just write a native app for OS X). ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 and we're finishing up the CDs as well How is the Java version of the software coming? This is low priority for me, so don't hold your breath. If there's enough demand, it will happen quicker -- but I'm having too much fun with another project right now. I'm hope you're able to find some time to do it at some point, as I'd really like to see a Java version I can use from OS X. I'd sure like to see it happen too. Lack of the Java version is the only reason why I didn't pre-order a Kroko cart. -S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 That thing is freakin' awesome. Keep up the good work guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 If you're not able to do it, I may have to port it to Java at some point (or just write a native app for OS X). A native OS X app (or even something that could run under X11) would be excellent! I'd really like to use my Kroko cart, but won't be able to at all until something Mac-friendly materializes for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I've been in contact with Kroko and am planning to write an OS X native app. I'm just waiting for my Krok Cart to ship at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I've been in contact with Kroko and am planning to write an OS X native app. I'm just waiting for my Krok Cart to ship at this point. Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I've been in contact with Kroko and am planning to write an OS X native app. I'm just waiting for my Krok Cart to ship at this point. Excellent, that's very good news. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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