jcompton Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) Yeah, that makes sense, make a backup of the current playdisks at the same time you make a snapshot. Thanks. Not that I expect an author to anticipate emulation and snapshotting and so forth, but I do sometimes get the impression that Price, talented though he was, seemed to obsess over certain details in a distinctly anti-player-enjoyment way (general pain involved in the saved game process, potions destroying themselves if you literally do so much as look at them wrong, etc.) A bit of the Mean DM in him, perhaps. This is the first time I've seriously played the A800 version of AR: City, and I am indeed struck in the places it is in fact better than my originally beloved C64 implementation. It's actually the first time I realized that thing in the south is a waterfall, as the map indicates... from the C64 animation, I'd always thought it was some sort of alien antenna tower (which worked with the game's setting, of course...) It's also interesting noting the places certain glitches aren't replicated, such as the fact that the A8 version doesn't have the weird color change in the enclosed area near Betelgeuse Sales. It's also explicit about treasure finding effects. (Although the C64 rain is quite a bit better. The blue jaggy soup on the screen is something, but it is not clearly rain...) It also inspired me to fire up the Amiga version for the first time in a while, and I was almost immediately put off by the lack of ambient sounds, the lack of the distinct surprise/disengaged/engaged modes, and even the lack of the waterfall... as though animating was tricky on the Amiga. Difficult to understand that one. OTOH, I do have a soft spot for the 16-bit versions owing to the "job" system. Hoping you get lucky enough to get a treasure finding potion so that you can make more than 2 coppers per day in the 8-bit versions is pretty tedious. Edited June 11, 2006 by jcompton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hicksman Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 wow i didnt know there actually WAS a waterfall... The only version of the game i ever seriously played was the PC version, and thats probably the worst implementation of the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) Anyway in the dungeon I determined the bargining formula and it worked last night in the city. Bascially to get the best price without getting thrown out is: ((Current Price - Last Offer Price) / 3) + Last Offer Price then rounded up. It works for at least three offers. if you follow this formula you only need to pay around 50% of the inital price. The Dungeon and ports are far more transparent than the original Atari 800 version. The Dungeon code is fairly straightforward and predictable. This is probably because those that ported The City and that created The Dungeon did not fully understand Philip's City code and just translated the basics. This is part of why The City is still mysterious even to this day, whereas The Dungeon plays much more like any other video game and is easy to predict. It is a fact that CHR affects pricing and may also affect bargaining. It works in tiers though i.e. CHR 14-16 pricing is equal. I was doing some testing a while back, its unfinished. Attached is the spreadsheet. I also have another one somewhere with monster stats and damage. AR_NPC_Pricing.zip Edited July 1, 2006 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) From memory, I don't think clothing (or lack of) seemed to make any difference in AR: The City. I have not seen any extensive testing of clothing ever, although it's one of the largest and most complex systems with many shops dedicated to it. There are thousands of combinations. Ever try to get a full outfit of the same color, quality and type and then study the effects on encounters? Philip is not the type of programmer to include such a major system for no reason and with no effect, I'll bet there is more to it than meets the eye. Edited July 1, 2006 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hicksman Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 actually xd, in the retro datasoft newletter post here on atariage, they say that clothes dont mean anything until the city couples with the dungeon or something to that effect. although it is odd that they would have such an intricate setup for absolutely no reason at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Datasoft has been wrong before. I don't think any of the documentation or newsletters were written by Philip Price. It seems that Phil split after not getting paid and Datasoft tried their best to document things even though they had nothing to do the the original program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Copy of Atari 800 Dungeon for sale on ebay: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Updated all Alternate Reality Links in first post. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69356 Edited October 25, 2006 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 New open box AR The City for Commodore 64 on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=130044638494 Also Dungeon Disks http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=130044656375 Wish that was an Atari version! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) actually xd, in the retro datasoft newletter post here on atariage, they say that clothes dont mean anything until the city couples with the dungeon or something to that effect. although it is odd that they would have such an intricate setup for absolutely no reason at all. They are definately wrong, at least where the Atari version of the city is concerned. That may be true of all the other versions. You are right, Philip didn't create such an intricate set-up for no reason at all, but at the moment, only Philip Price knows how it DOES work. I've started doing some testing with clothing but don't have much yet, only some unsubstantiated theories. When talking about the intricacies of Alternate Reality there have to be two conversations, Alternate Reality the City Atari 8-bit, and everything else (including A8 version of the dungeon). If someone took the maps and storyline of The Dungeon, and rewrote the game using the A8 city code, it would be a VERY different game and MUCH better. I love both games by the way. Edited November 6, 2006 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) When talking about the intricacies of Alternate Reality there have to be two conversations, Alternate Reality the City Atari 8-bit, and everything else (including A8 version of the dungeon). No doubt. The genius of Alternate Reality is Philip Price; his vision, his creativity and his coding. Versions other than Alternate Reality: The City for the Atari 800 attempt to copy the apparent gameplay and numbers and even go as far as adding more “game” content and features to seemingly become more playable, definable and marketable as typical computer games, but in becoming mere games or puzzles to complete, they deviate from and miss the core concept. Philip was not trying to create another video game for people to solve and then shelve; he was creating a believable perpetual game world - an alternate reality. ...where every choice and action can affect the world around you. Edited November 7, 2006 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n_Drow Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Greetings and salutations to you all. I've finally broken down and stopped just lurking. I'm a huge fan of the AR series, was ever so disappointed that it never got finished. During my time of lurking and looking I found that there was even a plan to revive the game that fell through. That really sucks. I've been playing my old atari 8-bit version of the game. Have it on Atari, Amiga, Commodore 64 and IBM. I must say that I agree, the best version is the Atari version for sure. Even though you can do more things in some of the other releases, the Atari version is the one that has all the magic of the game. Thanks for maintaining such a good forum for the reliving, sharing and enjoyment of those of us that know and love this wonderful game. Hopefully Gary G. and Philip P. will grace us with their presences regularly. Cap'n Drow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velcro_SP Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 <text clipped> Not that I expect an author to anticipate emulation and snapshotting and so forth, but I do sometimes get the impression that Price, talented though he was, seemed to obsess over certain details in a distinctly anti-player-enjoyment way (general pain involved in the saved game process, potions destroying themselves if you literally do so much as look at them wrong, etc.) A bit of the Mean DM in him, perhaps. <text clipped> (Although the C64 rain is quite a bit better. The blue jaggy soup on the screen is something, but it is not clearly rain...) It also inspired me to fire up the Amiga version for the first time in a while, and I was almost immediately put off by the lack of ambient sounds, the lack of the distinct surprise/disengaged/engaged modes, and even the lack of the waterfall... as though animating was tricky on the Amiga. Difficult to understand that one. OTOH, I do have a soft spot for the 16-bit versions owing to the "job" system. Hoping you get lucky enough to get a treasure finding potion so that you can make more than 2 coppers per day in the 8-bit versions is pretty tedious. It is said IIRC that Phillip Price developed AR under primitive conditions (a beach shack with gasoline generator or something) and if he did obsess over details, IMO it paid off in a big way. We are still talking his AR 25 years later. I think the root of the things that could be considered annoying (disk swapping, waiting, game saving etc.) are mainly limitations of the hardware, but he may have calculated those limitations, positioned them and done other things to integrate the limitations into the game experience in the way he wanted. I am looking forward to the cartridge version that will eliminate the disk swapping and streamline the other things, and I wish much luck to the programmer undertaking that. The graphical rain effects in A8 AR are clearly recognizable because of the accompanying sound IIRC. They are an abstract effect. I think it is great and could not be improved if there were photorealistic raindrops dripping down the screen. I have seen the Amiga version and found what I saw of it to be horrible in comparison to the Atari 8bit version. Of course the Amiga has tremendous games much more advanced in every way than the Atari 8bit, so this was just a problem with the game in question, not any indictment of the Amiga (that was of course Jay Miner's next computer). I will have to break out AR this holiday season. I am sure it is just as good as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hicksman Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 yay alexandria. (i'm in old town) I love that this thread dies for months at a time and then new people pop in and talk... It's fun to play all the different versions of the game and find the differences. One day we should put up a table and compare them all, complete with screenshots and everything. It's so weird that the PC version is such crap, by the way. I hate the atari emulators so i rarely play the original version of the game; the pc version is the easiest to get running and i dont have to screw with an emu. Unfortunately, it has little to no features that made the original distinct. By the way, I never told you guys that i have the amiga version working on my GP2X. if you dont know what that is, check the wikipedia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengwin Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 (edited) I will have to break out AR this holiday season. I am sure it is just as good as I recall. I did just that recently, and YES it is as good as I recall. Better than some of the modern games I play IMO. Back in the 80's playability was a big thing in game development (although not all games were playable). It seems that today, playability seems to have taken more of a back seat to stunning visuals and technical achievement. I still play Pac-Man and Mr Do, I can't imagine myself playing many, if any, PS2 games in 20 years time. Edited December 8, 2006 by Pengwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengwin Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 In case anyone in the UK is interested, I just found AR: The City on Ebay ATARI XL/XE DISC ALTERNATE REALITY + INST No Res Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunder Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 In case anyone in the UK is interested, I just found AR: The City on Ebay ATARI XL/XE DISC ALTERNATE REALITY + INST No Res There's another one here, closing on the 18th December... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunder Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I assume that you've all seen the Wikipedia article about AR? Quite interesting, although flagged by the powers that be due to a lack of a neutral point of view... anyone fancy having a go at updating it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 after 1 3/4 years of WOW i really should start again for playing citiy or the dungeon... every couple of months i read this http://www.marktaw.com/reviews/AlternateRe...yTheVideoG.html and think about what philip is doing today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hicksman Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 hey guys, hope somebody still reads this thread... Does anyone know how to get a timepiece in The City? I read that you can get one in a shop, but I've never seen one. In the code of the PC version, it hints that you can get both a timepiece and a compass from a merchant - i would assume after you give him money. Only problem is, i've tried giving money several times and never got one. Is there something else i'm supposed to give? Gems/jewelry perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I've been playing The City and The Dungeon for years, and as far as I can remember, you can't get a timepiece in the City, only a compass. In the City you have to check the time in Inns. In the Dungeon you can get a compass and a timepiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hicksman Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I've been playing The City and The Dungeon for years, and as far as I can remember, you can't get a timepiece in the City, only a compass. Agreed... BUT I pulled this from one of the files... The *NPC* isn't interested in your offer. The * NPC * takes your *item* and leaves! The * NPC * grabs your *item*, but doesn't leave! The * NPC * thanks you for your offer but refuses it. The merchant gives you a compass. watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilog Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I think this feature only exists in the 16bit versions of the City. I seem to remember that I've successfully got a timepiece from a Merchant for money in the Amiga version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hicksman Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 awesome. I wonder if the feature is broken in the PC version (like the sound). I'm going to load up WinUAE tonight and try it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hicksman Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hey all, I was messing around with my various versions, testing some things out and I thought of doing a little comparison. It was my first time playing the AtariST version of The City, which is actually nice considering its all on one disk -- one of my major peeves against playing the original version. On the other hand, the graphics are very pastel-ish which doesnt really fit the game very well. So, thats PC, EGA in the top left, AtariST in the top-right, Amiga in the bottom left and the original in the bottom right. There's downsides to all of them, really. The amiga looks the best in my opinion, but emulation is slow. The music is also off, but then again, so is the original's. (and the PC version hardly even has any) By the way, the ST version's music is spot on. I've never actually seen it played correctly, so that was a new experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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