Why a Fonz Hack Movement?

[sandmountainslim]

You may ask yourself "Why all the sudden interest in a Fonz hack?" The answer isn't as simple as it may seem , first we have to look at the original coin op by Sega

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=F&game_id=7836

Have you ever seen anything cooler?? Of course not In 1976 nothing was cooler than big old video game machines except for Fonzie and Sega thru either marketing genius or perhaps the hand of The Lord himself decided to combine the two into what was to become the most legendary coin op of all time, however thru the years others became jealous of Fonz, they cried out in desperation "Fonz is outdated play Space Invaders" and other similar war cries, after almost three decades of assault and irrational prejudice against Fonz the game is almost forgotten not even available for MAME It is now time to end the madness and bring Fonz back to a population of gamers who have suffered missing out on its thrilling game play for far too long. Keep Hope Alive!! Fonzie will return If Sandmountainslim's talent were only in the field of hacking and computers instead of looking good and making a swell batch of baked beans the dream would already be reality but alas it is not so we await a saviour willing to risk all in order to rescue Fonz from obscurity and save the souls of a generation Who will this saviour be? Only time will tell.

Edited May 13, 2005 by sandmountainslim

[StanJr]

Yes, but the real question is: How does Nick Moore fit into all of this? Aaaaaay.

[uosipa llamxew]

I've never played FONZ, but the description sounds a lot like the Hang-On (Enduro) graphic hack I did a while back. So, for kicks, I modified the logo. Yay! Here you go.

 

Edited May 19, 2005 by mojofltr

[Nukey Shay]

not even available for MAME

 

The game can never be available in Mame. It had no CPU...there's no roms to emulate. That same problem exists for the granddaddy of ALL arcade games...Pong.

 

Take a look at this site and weep:

http://unmamed.mame.net/

 

It lists all the games which are currently unsupported or WIP...as well as why they are not in Mame already.

[sandmountainslim]

I've never played FONZ, but the description sounds a lot like the Hang-On (Enduro) graphic hack I did a while back.  So, for kicks, I modified the logo.  Yay!  Here you go. 

 

 

854914[/snapback]

You most definately DO NOT blow goats :)The idea to have Hang On/Enduro as Fonz is one grand idea no doubt. This is a good start.

I believe it was Nukey who said earlier that Enduro with the changing time of day removed and a timer added would be an almost perfect simulation of Fonz which would be so good he would go into eclipse as soon as he witnessed it.

Edited May 14, 2005 by sandmountainslim

[sandmountainslim]

And besides all that.. If Fonz is never made that means we'll never see Neotokeo hard at work on "Fonz Vector"

[StanJr]

Or "Fonz Black."

 

[uosipa llamxew]

Ah! Just realized that Nukey beat me to this in another thread! Doh! Sorry, Nukey!

 

[removed download]

[sandmountainslim]

Poor poor Fonz, alone and forsaken in a damp warehouse somewhere or maybe even a dump while people enjoy hacks of every other nature It seems a shame really that oppressive games like Desert Falcon are available to all while an entire generation pines for just 1 chance to help Fonzie beat the other motorbike racers and do some good in the world

Alas the world is not fair

 

Keep Hope Alive

Support the Fonz Hack Movement AAAAAAYY

[Nukey Shay]

Ah!  Just realized that Nukey beat me to this in another thread!    Doh!  Sorry, Nukey!

[removed download]

857871[/snapback]

Actually, you beat me to it...I never bothered to look it up

 

Plus, your hack has the title screen altered. Mine didn't.

[sandmountainslim]

When you join the Fonz Hack Movement you say to the world "I stand for all that is cool and in opposition to things that blow"

[s0c7]

Don't know about everybody else, but my concern is that if there is a Fonz hack, that paves the way for a Joanie Loves Chachi hack.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

The game can never be available in Mame.  It had no CPU...there's no roms to emulate.  That same problem exists for the granddaddy of ALL arcade games...Pong.

854925[/snapback]

 

Uhm... actually MAME has Pong included...

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[s0c7]

Hi there!

 

The game can never be available in Mame.  It had no CPU...there's no roms to emulate.  That same problem exists for the granddaddy of ALL arcade games...Pong.

854925[/snapback]

 

Uhm... actually MAME has Pong included...

 

Greetings,

Manuel

860282[/snapback]

 

I thought they took it out about the same time they removed the gambling games since it was only simulated.

 

* pre-compiled anyway - haven't looked at the source in a long time. *

Edited May 23, 2005 by s0c7

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

I thought they took it out about the same time they removed the gambling games since it was only simulated.

860299[/snapback]

 

No clue, in Wolfmame it's there.

 

BTW: "only simulated" sounds like silly argument. If the software acurately recreates the behaviour of the discrete logic, then that's just as good as emulating any other video game hardware.

 

If it was removed I'd rather assume it was because of copyright issues, because it's not requiring a ROM.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[s0c7]

http://patchmame.emu-france.com/simulate.html

 

This link explains the reasoning (Nicola didn't agree with simulation).

 

If you go to the main Mame site, the only versions not available for download are the ones that had Pong in it.

[Cybergoth]

http://patchmame.emu-france.com/simulate.html

 

This link explains the reasoning (Nicola didn't agree with simulation).

 

If you go to the main Mame site, the only versions not available for download are the ones that had Pong in it.

860526[/snapback]

 

See what I said above. That simulation argument is bogus. Having the original Pong playable straight without requiring ROMs, that's IMO the real reason... Remember how Atari defended their Pong property right here in the Atari Age homebrew store?

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Nukey Shay]

Hi there!

 

The game can never be available in Mame.  It had no CPU...there's no roms to emulate.  That same problem exists for the granddaddy of ALL arcade games...Pong.

854925[/snapback]

 

Uhm... actually MAME has Pong included...

 

Greetings,

Manuel

860282[/snapback]

 

 

HAD. Probably due to nostalgia than the purpose of Mame (especially since Pong was released again around the same time). Remember, the purpose behind Mame is to archive the original roms so that they are not lost forever. Being able to play the games is just an added bonus. A simulation doesn't figure, and there are already plenty of those.

[Crimefighter]

Someone can just make a standalone emulator...

[Dav]

Someone can just make a standalone emulator...

902785[/snapback]

 

 

Pong was removed because it was not accurate and had no hope really of being an accurate documentation of the original hardware.

 

It had nothing to do with copyright. You can't copyright a circuit design so the actual game of pong is not copyrighted. The ironic thing is some of the other companies like allied sold more "pong" machines than atari did as they were better able to handle the production since they were mature companies.

 

We've had some discussion about adding the non-cpu games, no one is directly opposed to it if done correctly. Some dev's have said the internal archetecture is not well suited for non cpu's games, I couldn't say about that. Current pc's would likely only get 1 or 2 frames a second though. I've tried emulating a few of the circuits from tank. I did the electron beam in red so you could watch it slowly go across the screen drawing mines.

 

As for a stand alone emulator, that is the best bet. And here it is http://www.ascotti.org/programming/tickle/tickle.htm Complete with mame quality accuracy and slowness. Hopefully it will attract some devs to work on it.

[supercat]

Pong was removed because it was not accurate and had no hope really of being an accurate documentation of the original hardware. 

915854[/snapback]

 

I've not yet seen the whole schematic of pong (though I've been looking at the pieces someone has in his blog). Given that the whole thing is clocked off a 4*burst crystal (except two RC's to read the paddles) I see no reason a computer simulation shouldn't be perfect. To be sure, real simulation might be difficult (though probably not impossible given that most things are driven by divided-down clocks) but I see no reason not to perform the obvious optimizations (e.g. rather than evaluating the effects of certain logic every scan line, just draw the net as an overlayed graphic). Indeed, even an IBM XT should be able to manage a frame-perfect pixel-perfect simulation of PONG given how little stuff is actually going on (and given the XT's 4*burst dot clock).

 

A game like Fonz is a trickier proposition since there are a number of interacting RC timing circuits. Further, the behavior of the game can be affected substantially by operator settings. The "Fonz" one person remembers may play quite differently from what another person remembers.

 

Even there, however, I would suggest that it's better to simulate what one can, documenting the limitations of one's simulation, than let the old games float into complete obscurity.

[Dav]

Pong was removed because it was not accurate and had no hope really of being an accurate documentation of the original hardware. 

915854[/snapback]

 

I've not yet seen the whole schematic of pong (though I've been looking at the pieces someone has in his blog). Given that the whole thing is clocked off a 4*burst crystal (except two RC's to read the paddles) I see no reason a computer simulation shouldn't be perfect. To be sure, real simulation might be difficult (though probably not impossible given that most things are driven by divided-down clocks) but I see no reason not to perform the obvious optimizations (e.g. rather than evaluating the effects of certain logic every scan line, just draw the net as an overlayed graphic). Indeed, even an IBM XT should be able to manage a frame-perfect pixel-perfect simulation of PONG given how little stuff is actually going on (and given the XT's 4*burst dot clock).

 

A game like Fonz is a trickier proposition since there are a number of interacting RC timing circuits. Further, the behavior of the game can be affected substantially by operator settings. The "Fonz" one person remembers may play quite differently from what another person remembers.

 

Even there, however, I would suggest that it's better to simulate what one can, documenting the limitations of one's simulation, than let the old games float into complete obscurity.

915857[/snapback]

 

 

As you say, we know it can be perfect. So why would we let garbage in? Experience has shown if you lower your standards that's what you'll get. When they put galaga in they used the galaxian starfield and guess what? Nobody bothered to fix it since it wasn't obviously broken.

 

What you want is a C port. Someone could write one in a few hours and with feedback from pcb owners it could be just as accurate.

[supercat]

As you say, we know it can be perfect.  So why would we let garbage in?  Experience has shown if you lower your standards that's what you'll get.  When they put galaga in they used the galaxian starfield and guess what?  Nobody bothered to fix it since it wasn't obviously broken.

 

Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good. It's important that anything that isn't right be documented as such, so that someone who e.g. comes across a modded version of the original game won't incorrectly think his mod changed things which happen to differ from the simulation/port/whatever when in fact the simulation got those details wrong and his modded board implemented them the same as the original.

 

To use an analogy, suppose that the only known copies of a 1902 movie do not have the original intertitles, but there is a document that contains the text of all the original intertitles. Would it be better to show the movie without intertitles, or to create new intertitles, marking them as such? I would suggest that creating new intertitles but marking them as modern would be the best approach. If the new intertitles weren't marked as modern, they might be improperly used to judge the authenticity of a subsequently-found print which in fact contained 1902 subtitles.

 

What you want is a C port.  Someone could write one in  a few hours and with feedback from pcb owners it could be just as accurate.

915945[/snapback]

 

Somewhat, with the very important proviso that I would expect that the person doing the programming should have a detailed description of how the game in question actually works. In the case of "Pong", for example, I would not consider it acceptably accurate for someone to merely make something with paddles and a bouncing ball. The person doing the programming should analyze the circuit to determine the height of the paddles, the range of motion on them, the spacing and 'phase' of the dashes in the 'net', the vertical and horizontal speeds of the ball, etc. In the case of a game like Fonz, I would suggest that the person doing the simulation version should find a game adjusted as it would leave the factory, measure all trimpot values, calculate RC time constants, and then take some oscilloscope recordings of key points in the circuit to confirm that the circuit behaves as calculated.

 

If a particular RC circuit has a time constant of 4 seconds, I really don't think it's necessary to simulate it with sub-microsecond resolution. Depending upon what it's used for, simulating it once per frame or once per scan-line should suffice.

 

If one sticks to the proposition that analog stuff can't be meaningfully simulated, then a lot of older games should be silent in emulation. After all, many of them didn't use microprocessors for all the sound effects.

[Dav]

To use an analogy, suppose that the only known copies of a 1902 movie do not have the original intertitles, but there is a document that contains the text of all the original intertitles.  Would it be better to show the movie without intertitles, or to create new intertitles, marking them as such?  I would suggest that creating new intertitles but marking them as modern would be the best approach.  If the new intertitles weren't marked as modern, they might be improperly used to judge the authenticity of a subsequently-found print which in fact contained 1902 subtitles.

 

That's not a good analogy. The people that watch the movie can't magically make an original copy appear, however there's any number of people that would have added the correct color prom to make trax seven years ago if it had been broken instead of using one that's almost correct. If it's not broken it's less likely to get fixed.

 

 

If one sticks to the proposition that analog stuff can't be meaningfully simulated,

 

Nobodies said that. There's no doubt in my mind that they will be.

[Cootster]

Wait, Fonz is basically Enduro with motorcycles?

 

Sounds just like the PAL pirate game Motocross to me. . . Which isn't actually an Enduro hack. It's a pure top-down game that plays like the old Tomy mechanical motocross game, only with different kinds of obstacles and flags to collect.

 

The ROM's not on AA, but it's pretty widely available elsewhere. Maybe someone can Fonzify it.