Can opened games still be considered new?

[jesusc]

So I bought a lot off of the eBay that consisted of some 3DO games, one of which was described as new (lucienne's quest). I bid accordingy high and won the auction. I received the stuff the other day and was dismayed to find that the shrinkwrap had been cut away from the top of the box. It had been opened. I tried emailing the guy asking for a small refund due to the fact that the game was listed as new, but was in fact opened.

here's a copy of the emails so far.

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Subject: Re: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item #8195752504, 3DO - 7 Rare Games (Lucienne's Quest NEW!)

 

Received the package today. Thanks for the decent packaging.

I do have one complaint though.

Lucienne's Quest which you stated as new, isn't.

The shrinkwrap was cut around the top of the box, making the game "opened", and not new. I bid as high as I did because i thought I was getting a new copy. Would you be willing to offer a small refund? I'm not looking for much, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

let me know your thoughts on how this can be worked out.

thanks,

 

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Subject: RE: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item #8195752504, 3DO - 7 Rare Games (Lucienne's Quest NEW!)

 

The game is new as that is how it was sold to me, and I never played it. I forgot to mention the shrink-wrap had been opened, but the game is new. I also sold a new Theme Park game in my other auction, and the shrink-wrap was open on it too. Were there any scratches, bends, marks or anything on the disc, instructions, inserts? Does it look like a used game?

Let me know.

Thanks,

 

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yes it looks like a used game. It has been opened, and therefore is no longer in the condition that is considered new.

I didn't say it is in bad condition, all I said was that it wasn't new. By your criteria, i could state that 98% of my presonal collection is still "new". You know as well as I do that a rare game that is still new is worth considerably more than an opened one. Whether you forgot to mention that the game was opened was intentional or not, I can guarentee that the auction went for more than it would have if you did mention it.

that's all I'm saying. I was told that I was getting a new game. That implies it is still sealed. It wasn't.

 

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I know EB sells opened stuff as new all the time, that's why I never buy new stuff from them.

What are your thoughts? Am I being a jerk and an opened game still be considered new? Or do you think I'm right?

[christianscott27]

technically you are right, the question is how far do you want to take it? if the game is complete and pristine i'd let it go, if its in some way damaged then you have a good reason to go after it. it sounds like such a marginal dishonesty i'd move on if it were me.

 

as a side note, did you intend to open and play the game or were you planning on keeping it MIB?

[davepesc]

The game is new as that is how it was sold to me, and I never played it.

875996[/snapback]

 

 

Just because he got duped doesn't let him turn around and trick someone else.

If it's opened, it's not "new"

 

On a side note, where is the line crossed? I took the shrinkwrap off a couple of boxes because they were getting crushed. Are they still new? The cardboard is not glued or anything. I would say once it is touched by human hands, it is no longer "new."

[jsoper]

That's what the Ebay nuetral rating was created for.

[jetset]

IMO, consider this...looking at his feedback, he looks to be a reseller of mostly videogames. That said, he knows the difference between new and opened/used (that line about "It was sold to me as new, so that's how I sold it" it pure BS). That's like buying something busted, and reselling it as working just because the guy you bought it from said it worked...

If the guy were a casual ebayer, and wasn't a videogame broker, you could understand his not knowing the difference. The fact is he does know and used that to entice the sale. He definetly deserves a neg IMO, but both of you have perfect feedback, so you have to consider that.

Another fact to consider is that you paid for the item and never rec'd your due feedback for paying for the item. The only reason a seller would withhold your positive is as a bargaining chip in case you may have reason to neg him. In this case, he obviously knew you may not be happy with being sold something as "new" that ultimately was not. Personally that would piss me off enough to neg him...but that's just me.

[Dones]

Playing devil's advocate here: It could be possible the seller bought the cart believing it was new, even though it could have been that it wasn't. You didn't answer (at least not completely) the seller's question about the condition of the item: Is the CD scratched? Are there any marks on the manuals? Any specific sign at all that the game was actually used? From the picture he provided in the auction it does look like tha shrinkwrap has a bit of wear. Could it be that we are talking about an unused but old game whose packaging is showing signs of age?

 

If you decide to take this matter further: Was there a refund policy agreed before making a purchase? There seems to be none in the auction page: Did you ask for this explicitly before actually buying? It looks to me it was an honest sale so it's your call.

[sku_u]

If you paid through Paypal, you can file for a refund because what the guy sent you was not as stated. I'd do that if this seller doesn't budge. I'd be pretty pissed off if I paid a premium for something advertised as new then got something that was opened.

[classicgamingguy]

Okay, pardon my two cents here, but I couldn't let this pass without saying anything. Hmm, let's see, technically, you're right for vocalizing your concerns for the sale. I consider "new" shrink wrapped, unopened, unmolested, however you'd like to put it. If I sold anything on Ebay, I would probably be honest to a fault regarding the items I'm selling in question. Like for example:

 

One Realsports Soccor game for the Atari 2600, unopened, box slightly crushed. Asking "blah blah" for it.

 

If that's the state it's in, I'd post it that way. But that's just me. Perhaps the guy was actually thinking he was selling something "new"..however, most of you out there buying this stuff are shrewd buyers, cautious, and know what you expect to receive. Perhaps this gentleman didn't grasp the concept the same way you do.

 

'Nuff said. Just my two cents, and my thoughts.

 

Steve

[jetset]

Perhaps the guy was actually thinking he was selling something "new"

 

Steve

876339[/snapback]

 

As I mentioned however...he is reselling games. 99% of what he sells are videogames. That pretty much shows he is aware of the rarity of games, and the vast difference (to collectors) between "NEW" and not new.

[Foxsolo2000]

Interesting debate. I have a question myself on the validity of new games. Just because it is shrinkwrapped does that automatically mean it is new? I ask for I read online about a scam going round where used games were being shrink wrapped to be passed of as brand new games. How can you tell the difference between genuine and reshrinked for as already stated new games fetch a higher premium on the auction sites?

[ozyr]

Um... I have bought shrink wrapped games that we used. Some stores (places, whatever) can re-shrink wrap the boxes. So just because it's wrapped is no 100% gaurantee that it is new.

 

And some games were not shrink wrapped. Depends on the system, etc. Personally, if the game looks mint - even without wrap - I consider it new. Period.

 

Just my opinion..

[jesusc]

Another fact to consider is that you paid for the item and never rec'd your due feedback for paying for the item.

876113[/snapback]

 

 

This happens to me all the time and I'm sick of it. I've been getting screwed a lot lately (for the record, I don't consider this a screwing, just annoying) and have just let stuff go because I don't want my record tarnished.

I think I'm going to start sending a note with my payment that if feedback isn't left upon receipt of payment, I'm automatically going to give a nuetral.

 

The seller ended up offering to either pay for shipping for me to ship everything back, or $5. I took the five bucks. It was more about matter of principle than price. Offering something back acknowledges that he was wrong (to me anyway), and that's good enough for me.

Now to see what kind of fedback he leaves, if any.

[TuzenTCA]

When I sell stuff I use a rating system partially borrowed from others but still one in my own.

 

SIB - Sealed in box, sealed in its wrapper, but could include a slash in the side of the plastic, a slightly crushed box, etc. Defiantly not opened, fiddled with, or played, but not 100% still sealed

 

MIB - Mint in box, as if it were sold in a store, 100% completely un-fooled around with

 

NIB NS - New in box, not sealed, but never used, as if you opened a game and for some reason decided it was not the right one, or didn't like it before you actually got to the technically aspect of plying with it.

 

CIB NS- Complete in Box not sealed, mostly I use this to describe games like play station games or DVDs, where the case is the box, and it could be complete otherwise without being sealed.

 

If I were to see new, or "New" I would think it meant my MIB, but it could mean SIB. They really don't mean a whole lot of difference to me but it could to a serious collector. I know that in your case, if you could tell that the game could have potentially been played and if it was a direct slit into the top of the box where the game access was at, then it would be neither MIB, nor SIB, and it could not be consider new it would be Pre Played, or NIB, CIB status.

[Atari-Jess]

I take new as,

 

if it looks like its not really been played (maybe used once or twice, its in "new" condition.

 

a few scuffs here and there and its "good"

 

lots of scratches "poor"

 

holes, cracks "garbage - CHEAP mei loss iz ur gain!!!1"

 

if its shrinkwrapped, its in "mint" condition.

 

Thats my definitions of those terms

[Atari Rescue Group]

New means how it was originally packaged by the manufacturer to be sold. The seller did bait you out of extra cash with his innacurate description. If I were you I'd tell the seller I'd be indifferent if he were to drop a negative on me if I did so on him first for his bait and switch. Not much he could say in response to: "Seller claimed item was new -- item was opened and seller later admitted it was opened when sent." Maybe he'd cough up a discount after that.

 

But then again if you were gonna open the item anyways and you are happy with it then you are likely just spinning your wheels trying to get some blood out of that stone.

[supercat]

But then again if you were gonna open the item anyways and you are happy with it then you are likely just spinning your wheels trying to get some blood out of that stone.

897421[/snapback]

 

Consider also that while it doesn't happen often, it's possible for a cart to be in a factory-sealed box and yet be DOA. If the box has been opened, the dead cart can be blamed on the seller. But if it's sealed?

[CaptainCaputo]

no, i dont think that opened games can be considered new i've gotten in to arguements at gamestop about this before where i was buying a new game or so i thought and then they go in to the used bin and pull out the game and tell me its "just been opened".....to me new is shrink wrapped never opened

[sega saturn x]

An opened game can still be new since new is a measure of time (in my mind anyway), i think the question you're asking is can an open game still be considered mint. I would go with no mint means sealed to me if it's open the game or figure what have you is no longer mint just in great shape. Forgot to add i don't think you were out of line at all. You should get what you paid for and since you didn't some compensation was needed. Also i may have missed it but were you going to keep it mint or open it?

Edited July 25, 2005 by sega saturn x

[Video]

I think your confusing New for Mint myself. Mint would be not opened in any way shape or form, and a perfect condition box under that. But seriously, New could be "I had it a week"

 

Seriously, if someone asks you what your newest games are, what do they useually mean? pretty much all will mean 'most recently acquired.

 

But for that, if everything is in awesome shape, but it's open, it should probably be considered near mint.

[jesusc]

I had no intention of opening the game.

I'm not a hardcore pirate or anything, but if I wanted to play the game again (had it years ago, but sold it), I wouldn't lose sleep over burning a copy off the net.

Apparently some people regard "mint" as being a higher grade than "new".

I used to consider them synonomous; however, I have purchased things "new" that weren't in mint shape (cushed box, cracked case).

Overall, they guy knew he was being misleading. I let him get away with it because I'm an impatient person riddled with ADD when it comes to games. They will sit for months untouched, then I sell them, then I buy them back with the intention of actually playing them; but they will sit for months untouched....cycle repeat.

[spacecadet]

To paraphrase a famous quote...

 

New means new!

 

That's it. Once any part of the package has touched human hands that wouldn't have how it left the factory, it's no longer new.

 

I get so sick of these auctions where items are described as new that are clearly outside the packaging in the pictures, just because the seller has never personally used it. That's meaningless.

 

The main point is once the packaging is opened, you no longer have any point of reference for what happened to that game prior to your ownership. If a game is new and unopened, you know for a fact that it has never been played, never been touched. If the packaging is opened, it may not have ever actually been played, or it may have been played every single day and just kept in like-new condition. It's not just a question of semantics, it's the difference between knowing the complete history of a game and knowing absolutely nothing about the history of a game.

 

Sellers don't think this matters because they're using the term "new" as a grade of playing condition. But that's not really what matters when you describe a classic game as "new" (if all anyone cares about is playing a game, "mint" is perfectly fine). The only people who care about whether or not a classic game is "new" are collectors. And to collectors, new means new - it's really got nothing to do with condition. A box could be totally crushed and beat up, but if it's not opened, it's still new. Most collectors probably will not even open most "new" classic games if that's what they really are - they'll buy a bare cart in addition if they just want to play.

 

Anyway, technically any game that's been opened but is in new condition can only be described as "like-new". As far as I'm concerned, as soon as the package is open it can never be described as "new" again.

 

(It's the same thing as what happens as soon as you drive a new car off the dealer lot. You could drive it 20 feet, you could drive it less than all the test drives ever put on its odometer - as soon as it's off that lot in your possession, it's a used car.)

Edited July 26, 2005 by spacecadet