Why is the Gamecube crap?

[sku_u]

Bullshit. I had a 100$ DVD player a year before the PS2's JAPANESE launch.

A 100$ DVD player that worked far better than the PS2 in said task.

 

 

DVD had ALREADY gone mainstream in America. The PS2's DVD playback was ONLY relevant in the Japanese market, where it was the cheapest player available.

 

 

You couldn't be further from the truth. When the PS2 launched, DVDs were still a novelty in the US consumer market that many were reluctant to embrace at first out of fear that it would go the way of Laserdisc. I bought the PS2 AT LAUNCH because at the time there were NO DVD players that were selling for under the $200 mark and I wanted a game system. If you managed to find a $100 DVD player in October of 2000, I salute you. It must have been on clearance in a store going out of business. Even the video stores like Blockbuster were only STARTING to keep DVD sections at that time.

887828[/snapback]

 

I hate to differ, but I bought a cheap-o DVD player around the time of the launch of the PS2 as well. My Apex player was only about $100 - and I'm sure it was close to the PS2 launch, judging that two movies we first bought for it were the Rugrats Movie and Matrix which were both around 2000 releases on DVD.

 

I do think that the PS2 playing DVD's sold quite a few people on the system, especially parents, since the kids could say "but it plays DVDs too" and made it look like a great bargain.

 

DVD's weren't the dominant format that they are now, but they certainly weren't a novelty. I'm generally a late adaptor - so I'd say if I got a cheap player, others did as well...

887832[/snapback]

 

The Matrix movie came out after the PS2's launch on DVD and was also launched in both VHS and DVD format, the former being the more widely available than the ladder. I remember that only because the Matrix was the first DVD I bought after buying my PS2 and at the time it was a new release on DVD.

 

Regardless, having a DVD player and being backwards compatable with a library of well over 1000 games gave the PS2 something neither the Xbox nor the Gamecube had at launch: an instant library of titles.

[sega saturn x]

The ps2 was my first dvd player but due to how poorly made the system is i had to buy a real one about a month after i got a ps2. The ps2 is the worlds worst dvd player end of story.

[JB]

I can't understand why some people have such a hard time seeing and/or accepting the fact that Gamecube was designed and intended for kids' use. The system and the controller (which is small for a reason) are colorful and odd-shaped, appealing to kids.

Ummm... The controller is every bit as large as Sony's own DualShock.

 

The vast majority of Nintendo's first party games are geared for kids, easy-to-learn and containing mostly kid-friendly themes.

    Does all this mean that it's impossible for adults to enjoy the Gamecube? Of course not. It means exactly what it says, that Gamecube was meant for children, plain and simple. No one goes to see Spy Kids at the movies and says, "Can comeone explain to me how this is a kids' movie?"

    This issue is why a lot of people hate the Gamecube. Nintendo's games are (for the most part) innovative, addictive, and really fun to play. The only problem is that they have limited appeal, being meant for kids. If Miyamoto used some of his genius to make the next Grand Theft Auto, a lot of people would stop hating Nintendo.

I still think people are confusing "all audiences" with "kid-targeted."

Nintendo's games are largely geared to be accessible to everyone.

 

    The discs used in the Gamecube angered a lot of people due to their size.

Few developers can fill a single-layer DVD. At the time the GameCube was designed, few were filling CD-ROMs.

 

There IS a limiting factor. Developers HAVE gotten to the point where they can easily half-fill a DVD. And no one wants to go dual-layer, though it's an option on the 'Cube and boosts disk capacity to the same as those single-layer DVDs they're using on the other systems.

 

The discs (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) are proprietary, allowing Nintendo to make more money off their production.

The format's propprietary. The media is standard, as far as I know.

 

Their size also prevents piracy,

They sell mini-DVDs.

 

So, in exchange for gamers not being able to play DVD's and CD's, Nintendo made some more money.

Ummm... I've never used a game console as a music or movie player, and have no intention of ever doing so.

 

 

Bullshit. I had a 100$ DVD player a year before the PS2's JAPANESE launch.

A 100$ DVD player that worked far better than the PS2 in said task.

 

 

DVD had ALREADY gone mainstream in America. The PS2's DVD playback was ONLY relevant in the Japanese market, where it was the cheapest player available.

 

 

You couldn't be further from the truth. When the PS2 launched, DVDs were still a novelty in the US consumer market that many were reluctant to embrace at first out of fear that it would go the way of Laserdisc. I bought the PS2 AT LAUNCH because at the time there were NO DVD players that were selling for under the $200 mark and I wanted a game system. If you managed to find a $100 DVD player in October of 2000, I salute you. It must have been on clearance in a store going out of business.

Yup. Wal-Mart collapsed into bankruptcy the very next week.

 

 

Even the video stores like Blockbuster were only STARTING to keep DVD sections at that time.

The stores like Best Buy were starting to phase VHS out entirely. DVD had already hit equal shelf space.

[n8littlefield]

Bullshit. I had a 100$ DVD player a year before the PS2's JAPANESE launch.

A 100$ DVD player that worked far better than the PS2 in said task.

 

 

DVD had ALREADY gone mainstream in America. The PS2's DVD playback was ONLY relevant in the Japanese market, where it was the cheapest player available.

 

 

You couldn't be further from the truth. When the PS2 launched, DVDs were still a novelty in the US consumer market that many were reluctant to embrace at first out of fear that it would go the way of Laserdisc. I bought the PS2 AT LAUNCH because at the time there were NO DVD players that were selling for under the $200 mark and I wanted a game system. If you managed to find a $100 DVD player in October of 2000, I salute you. It must have been on clearance in a store going out of business. Even the video stores like Blockbuster were only STARTING to keep DVD sections at that time.

887828[/snapback]

 

I hate to differ, but I bought a cheap-o DVD player around the time of the launch of the PS2 as well. My Apex player was only about $100 - and I'm sure it was close to the PS2 launch, judging that two movies we first bought for it were the Rugrats Movie and Matrix which were both around 2000 releases on DVD.

 

I do think that the PS2 playing DVD's sold quite a few people on the system, especially parents, since the kids could say "but it plays DVDs too" and made it look like a great bargain.

 

DVD's weren't the dominant format that they are now, but they certainly weren't a novelty. I'm generally a late adaptor - so I'd say if I got a cheap player, others did as well...

887832[/snapback]

 

The Matrix movie came out after the PS2's launch on DVD and was also launched in both VHS and DVD format, the former being the more widely available than the ladder. I remember that only because the Matrix was the first DVD I bought after buying my PS2 and at the time it was a new release on DVD.

 

Regardless, having a DVD player and being backwards compatable with a library of well over 1000 games gave the PS2 something neither the Xbox nor the Gamecube had at launch: an instant library of titles.

887837[/snapback]

 

Nope - actually the Matrix came out on DVD prior to the PS2 launch. I can't find a concrete date, but it was either 9/1/99 (dvd.ign.com), 9/21/99 (amazon.com) or 12/1/99 (imdb.com).

 

The other movie we bought, the Rugrats Movie (I know, I know) came out a few months before that...according to imdb at least.

 

Sorry to beat the horse dead, but just wanted to show that we weren't crazy - DVD was well established at PS2 launch.

[hex65000]

I think the 'games being meant for kids' is being confused with the darn near everyone rating. I also can easily do without another GTA type game for any platform honestly.

The bright and colorful argument doesn't hold well either. The Xbox controller has several colored buttons and a pretty jewel in the center (just in case you forgot what system you were playing on)

The GC controllers are odd in design, but are surprisingly comfortable overall. The D-Pad is too small and a dual-stick configuration would have been prefered instead of the oddly lopsided controllers they are. Now the Sony PS2 controller cramps my hands up badly -- especially if I need to use the D-pad for anything meaningful. The Logitech wireless has become my weapon of choice for almost all of my PSx gaming.

 

Now let's talk about media formats. I admit I don't know if they use custom media. The mini-DVD with a custom format seems more plausable. And yes, I can see that some of it has to do with copyright protection. It took _how_ long for a functional modchip to surface? Also bear in mind, I think that the ability to play DVDs actually directly affects the cost to produce a console. Specifically, the MPeg codec that is used on DVDs is intellectual property owned by a German(?) company. So, for example, the XBox in reallity can play dvds without the remote control, but you had to fork over the extra cash for a licence for the dvd codec.

 

Also bear this in mind, the less focus a system has (not specifically a game machine; any system, like an all-in one fax/scanner/printer) the less likely that it is going to perform any function particularly well. So with that thought in mind...

 

Nintendo made a game machine. They focus on making game machines. Really, that's what they do. They experiment in new methods of play. This is good really. Think about it, the genres of games have had occasional spurts of movement I'm not going to say that any one company has a monopoly on innovation -- yes, MS would like to think they do. But the fact that they at least Nintendo _TRIES_ new ways of having the player interact with the machine is worth taking a look at.

Sony is a consumer electronics manufacturer; and it shows. Any further thoughts will just lead me to harping on the same points I always make about why I loathe Sony. Lets move on shall we.

Microsoft is. The Xbox is a mighty hulk of a machine with everything going for it but its sheer size and it's second-string game library. I ask myself what are the 'must-haves' for the Xbox and that list is small in relation to its library size. There is so much potential wasted on this machine and I cannot explain the root cause. I like my X-crate and will preferably buy a game for it first if its available on all two or three platforms.

 

I don't know anything about the Sony/Nintendo battle over the N-64. To me it's moot. Other than an interesting footnote to help explain why things happened as they did. I also agree with Rhindle on his point, If it's a younger kid, get em' an N-64. It's not the prettiest, they'll whine and cry for a while, but an N-64 is a lot harder to destroy than a PS2. And when your'e dropping $50 a game and your child refuses to take care of their media I won't have a lot of sympathy for you.

 

Also overall, Accessing data through a solid-state means is typically loads faster than through any other method of retrieving data. Access times are fairly static and you can load and process data on the fly with little effort. The tradeoff is obviously cost of materials. CDs are cheap to make, but are a bit easier to duplicate and usually aren't as robust. Carts are usually more hardy and can offer some layer of copy protection if done right.

 

I think that covers all I cared about for now.

 

Hex.

[ Recalls the great gamer revisionist marathon of 2002, I was there. ]

[JB]

Also bear in mind, I think that the ability to play DVDs actually directly affects the cost to produce a console. Specifically, the MPeg codec that is used on DVDs is intellectual property owned by a German(?) company.

I dunno if the software patent on the decoder gets involved(given MPEG is an open standard, they never should've got the damn patent), but I know there's a license fee present for the CSS decryption keys.

[Rhindle The Red]

Also bear in mind, I think that the ability to play DVDs actually directly affects the cost to produce a console. Specifically, the MPeg codec that is used on DVDs is intellectual property owned by a German(?) company.

I dunno if the software patent on the decoder gets involved(given MPEG is an open standard, they never should've got the damn patent), but I know there's a license fee present for the CSS decryption keys.

888030[/snapback]

You have to pay the DVD Forum (or its subsidiaries) a liscensing fee in order to build a machine that plays DVDs as well as to use the DVD logo. If the machine does more than one thing (such as use DVD-ROM and DVD-Video technology, like the PS2 - as a member of the Forum, Sony does not have to liscense the technology) you have to pay *two* liscensing fees. This is the reason the XBOX does not play DVDs out of the box. Microsoft passed the cost of the DVD-Video liscense directly on to the customer.

[JB]

Also bear in mind, I think that the ability to play DVDs actually directly affects the cost to produce a console. Specifically, the MPeg codec that is used on DVDs is intellectual property owned by a German(?) company.

I dunno if the software patent on the decoder gets involved(given MPEG is an open standard, they never should've got the damn patent), but I know there's a license fee present for the CSS decryption keys.

888030[/snapback]

You have to pay the DVD Forum (or its subsidiaries) a liscensing fee in order to build a machine that plays DVDs as well as to use the DVD logo. If the machine does more than one thing (such as use DVD-ROM and DVD-Video technology, like the PS2 - as a member of the Forum, Sony does not have to liscense the technology) you have to pay *two* liscensing fees. This is the reason the XBOX does not play DVDs out of the box. Microsoft passed the cost of the DVD-Video liscense directly on to the customer.

888049[/snapback]

You have to pay a licensing fee on the DVD-ROM side too?

 

Wow.

[Dones]

I think the 'games being meant for kids' is being confused with the darn near everyone rating.

If you think about it, there is no "K" (kiddie) rating either, so every game gets sucked into the generic "E".

The mini-DVD with a custom format seems more plausable. And yes, I can see that some of it has to do with copyright protection. It took _how_ long for a functional modchip to surface? Also bear in mind, I think that the ability to play DVDs actually directly affects the cost to produce a console. Specifically, the MPeg codec that is used on DVDs is intellectual property owned by a German(?) company.

I don't know the fees involved in adding DVD functionality but I think it would have helped them a lot to have done so. Nintendo shot itself in the foot competively by refusing to include DVD movie playing capabilities. Not only did it made the quality of in-game videos worse (specially in 3rd party games) but it also gave the competition an edge.

I don't know anything about the Sony/Nintendo battle over the N-64. To me it's moot. Other than an interesting footnote to help explain why things happened as they did. I also agree with Rhindle on his point, If it's a younger kid, get em' an N-64. It's not the prettiest, they'll whine and cry for a while, but an N-64 is a lot harder to destroy than a PS2. And when your'e dropping $50 a game and your child refuses to take care of their media I won't have a lot of sympathy for you.

I think it was mentioned somewhere that (at the time) Nintendo was already heavily invested in cart manufacturing plants. They were not about to let their control go so easily over a 3rd party supplier for cd's.

 

Nintendo's decision to stick with carts on a time when consumers had accepted CD's as the new medium hurt them competively. Same as with their refusal to play DVD's, Nintendo shot itself in the foot (again) and crippled any chance for developers to create the games with rich audio, video, graphics and length that they were looking for. It is not moot because it shows an established pattern wich they repeted with the gamecube and are already doing with the revolution (no HD anyone? What additional current technology will Nintendo shy away off this time?).

Also overall, Accessing data through a solid-state means is typically loads faster than through any other method of retrieving data. Access times are fairly static and you can load and process data on the fly with little effort. The tradeoff is obviously cost of materials. CDs are cheap to make, but are a bit easier to duplicate and usually aren't as robust.  Carts are usually more hardy and can offer some layer of copy protection if done right.

You said the N64 was moot yet you mention the infamous cart/cd debate. Are you sure it's moot? One good thing the mini disc format has to its favor is that it is (supposedly) inherently faster because there is less area for the optical reader to travel. Nintendo should have caved in (to their apathy towards new technology) in and embraced the full disc DVD format (imo).

[JB]

I don't know the fees involved in adding DVD functionality but I think it would have helped them a lot to have done so. Nintendo shot itself in the foot competively by refusing to include DVD movie playing capabilities. Not only did it made the quality of in-game videos worse (specially in 3rd party games) but it also gave the competition an edge.

You can have MPEG-2 playback without DVD movie playback. Hell, you can have MPEG-2 playback without having a DVD DRIVE, or even any dedicated video playback hardware at all.

 

The Dreamcast, for example, had it in a great many games.

 

 

Why am I harping on MPEG2? Because DVD video is MPEG2 wrapped in an encryption layer(CSS).

 

 

Nintendo ...  crippled any chance for developers to create the games with rich audio, video, graphics and length that they were looking for.

Rubbish.

The GameCube is capable of playing back MPEG2 video, which is the only thing that DVD video playback would allegedly get them.

 

It is true that their disks are roughly half the capacity of everyone else's, but guess what? Everyone else's disks are running at half-capacity.

...

Of course, so are Nintendo's. Unlike the movie industry, the game industry has shown a remarkably heavy resistance towards dual-layer disks. And this has hurt them.

But it's not a technical fault of the GameCube. And really, who can fault them for believing their own industry, which embraces new technologies so much faster than those older, more rigid businesses, would move to dual-layer as soon as it became needed?

 

It is not moot because it shows an established pattern wich they repeted with the gamecube

Actually, all it shows is that the GameCube has smaller disks.

[Dones]

Rubbish to you perhaps. My point has nothing to do with your assumptions as to companies using half space on PS2 dvd's. There are many ported games out there in which the quality of their video scenes is evidently worse. This would not had happened if they had the space to put all their media files in GC discs without fear of running out of space.

Edited July 8, 2005 by Dones

[sku_u]

Yup. Wal-Mart collapsed into bankruptcy the very next week.

 

 

Yeah, now there's a banner example of a great retailer. FYI, in 2000, the nearest Walmart to me was about 100 miles away.

[JB]

Rubbish to you perhaps. My point has nothing to do with your assumptions as to companies using half space on PS2 dvd's. There are many ported games out there in which the quality of their video scenes is evidently worse. This would not had happened if they had the space to put all their media files in GC discs without fear of running out of space.

888112[/snapback]

It's not assumptions. It's facts.

 

The game industry has refused to move to dual-layer disks. And I'd bet good money that Nintendo expected them to move to dual-layer.

 

 

Yup. Wal-Mart collapsed into bankruptcy the very next week.

Yeah, now there's a banner example of a great retailer. FYI, in 2000, the nearest Walmart to me was about 100 miles away.

888117[/snapback]

Lucky you. I've got 2 within 15 miles. 1 was there back in '99.

 

And I never said they were a great retailer.

Just that they weren't exactly in financial distress.

[sku_u]

Lucky you. I've got 2 within 15 miles.

 

Not really, there are now 4 within walking distance.

[JB]

Lucky you. I've got 2 within 15 miles.

 

Not really, there are now 4 within walking distance.

888126[/snapback]

Spoke too soon, I guess.

[xenomorpher]

The ps2 was my first dvd player but due to how poorly made the system is i had to buy a real one about a month after i got a ps2.  The ps2 is the worlds worst dvd player end of story.

887860[/snapback]

 

.....Its like 5 years old.....

[sega saturn x]

The ps2 was my first dvd player but due to how poorly made the system is i had to buy a real one about a month after i got a ps2.  The ps2 is the worlds worst dvd player end of story.

887860[/snapback]

 

.....Its like 5 years old.....

888149[/snapback]

And your point would be what? Five year old electronics shouldn't work properly? And you must have missed the part where i said one month later i needed a new dvd player.

If you think about it, there is no "K" (kiddie) rating either, so every game gets sucked into the generic "E".

No but there is a C for child. But i have only seen it used on world class edutainment games such as sesame street. I don't think any nintendo game has ever gotten it unless there some mario learning games out there. I don't think that typing game counts do typing games even get ratings?

Edited July 8, 2005 by sega saturn x

[xenomorpher]

The ps2 was my first dvd player but due to how poorly made the system is i had to buy a real one about a month after i got a ps2.  The ps2 is the worlds worst dvd player end of story.

887860[/snapback]

 

.....Its like 5 years old.....

888149[/snapback]

And your point would be what? Five year old electronics shouldn't work properly? And you must have missed the part where i said one month later i needed a new dvd player.

If you think about it, there is no "K" (kiddie) rating either, so every game gets sucked into the generic "E".

No but there is a C for child. But i have only seen it used on world class edutainment games such as sesame street. I don't think any nintendo game has ever gotten it unless there some mario learning games out there. I don't think that typing game counts do typing games even get ratings?

888173[/snapback]

 

That usually the first run of stuff is usually buggy. Seems 01/02 model PS2's are usually very reliable for some reason. And I knew of some people that had trouble with the first ones.

[Dones]

If you think about it, there is no "K" (kiddie) rating either, so every game gets sucked into the generic "E".

No but there is a C for child. But i have only seen it used on world class edutainment games such as sesame street. I don't think any nintendo game has ever gotten it unless there some mario learning games out there. I don't think that typing game counts do typing games even get ratings?

888173[/snapback]

Typing of the Dead got an "M" (go figure) Guess typing is not a suitable activity for minors. LOL I was joking about the "K" rating (I should have said so in my post ).

[Omar]

What is wrong with the gamecube that people have to constantly bash it and have no desire to own one.  Is it the controllers?  The rumoured idea that it was directed toward a younger audience?  What's the deal and why is it considered a block of shite?

 

Please post your thoughts.

883987[/snapback]

 

As an owner of a GameCube, I can tell you this:

 

1) The controller sucks for fighting games or anything that requieres an intense use of the D-Pad or switching quickly from pressing button "B" to button "Y" or "X". (like, for example, Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance or Tony Hawk series)

 

2) Practically zero online games. I'm mean c'mon, there is a modem, yet no online games in America besides PSO. How about Splinter Cell or something?

 

3) Practically zero LAN games. Only Mario Kart. So ok, I understand that maybe developers do not want to mantain servers and all that online stuff. How expensive or hard could have been adding LAN support?

 

4) Lack of third party support. Even MS, a relative newcomer to the industry, managed much better support than veteran Nintendo.

 

Still like my Gamecube, though.

[moycon]

The ps2 was my first dvd player but due to how poorly made the system is i had to buy a real one about a month after i got a ps2.  The ps2 is the worlds worst dvd player end of story.

 

End of fairy tale is more like it.

I got my PS2 at launch and it's worked fine as a game system and a DVD player. Based on previous posts of yours sega saturn x .... You seem to have very bad luck with Sony products and you don't seem to like the majority of the games. One wonders why you continue to buy their products? Hopefully you have learned your lesson and will spare us the bitch sessions about why the PS3 sucks by not purchasing one. (Altho that would probably make too much sense.)

 

As far as the getting the thread back on topic.

(This is a gamecube thread right?)

Check out what is headed my way.....

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=8201805110

 

I'm looking forward to the GC. I'll admit I am not crazy about the controllers based on demo units in the stores. Hopefully they will grow on me. I really wanted the GC to play the unopened copies of Donkey Konga 1 & 2 I bought (Both with bongos) I figured I'd do a quick search on ebay and lucked out on this lot. I think that I got a great price considering the amount of games included.

[classicgamingguy]

Great find on that Gamecube. Congrat's to you on scoring a good deal, and I hope you have tons of fun with it.

 

Steve

[Dones]

3) Practically zero LAN games. Only Mario Kart. So ok, I understand that maybe developers do not want to mantain servers and all that online stuff. How expensive or hard could have been adding LAN support?

There is a little detail not many people know about LAN gaming with Double Dash: Nintendo crippled LAN gaming by not letting you choose with characters or what level to play. It's all assigned randomnly by the machine. So even there Nintendo shoots itself in the foot (yet again). There are a few other games that support this crippled feature too, like Kirby.

[sega saturn x]

Hopefully you have learned your lesson and will spare us the bitch sessions about why the PS3 sucks by not purchasing one

Don't worry i dont think i will ever be getting a ps3 or psp. Sony makes buggy products they have for years. Pretty much anything i buy from them brakes. I have had to replace sony brand headphones 4 times now. And both of my sony cd playes are dead. The only reason i keep getting the head phones are there under warrenty so i get them for free if they break. The only thing i have from them that still works is a ten year old tv.

That usually the first run of stuff is usually buggy. Seems 01/02 model PS2's are usually very reliable for some reason. And I knew of some people that had trouble with the first ones.

The first run should not be buggy the things they sell should work. If they don't it's no one but sonys fault. I'm not talking about dropping the system on cement and expecting it run great. I take good care of my stuff and is should work they way it was supposed to. Btw my first run cube still working great.

Typing of the Dead got an "M" (go figure)  Guess typing is not a suitable activity for minors. LOL I was joking about the "K" rating (I should have said so in my post  ).

I figured that but i wasn't sure.

[moycon]

Don't worry i dont think i will ever be getting a ps3 or psp.

 

LOL Think????

 

If you DO decided to get it and dont like it, please keep it to yourself. After months and months posting to this forum.... bitching about Sony you will come off looking mighty retarded if you do. Just spare the rest of us, you'll have no-one to blame but yourself at that point. Agreed?

 

5 bucks says he gets one and bitches in spite of it all ; )

 

Is there some 3rd party game controller that improves on the design of the original Gamecube controller? I know the Dreamcast had some pretty cool and different looking (and feeling) joysticks by a variety of manufactures. I did a quick serch on controllers but other than Arcade sticks. All the 3rd party sticks look almost exactly like the ones that came with the unit.

 

Errrr all except this one that is. LOL

 

http://www.gamefreax.com/lshop,showdetail,...1051916230,.htm