NovaXpress Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I don't have any clue how patent law works, but you would think that it would be in both partys interests to have a pay percentage of sales arrangement. That way you could package all the games you want and not have ridiculous flat rates but 5% or 10% here. It seems to me everyone would make out better. I wonder what the problem is with just makeing the slot electrically and mechanically compatable with the 2600 and making the new carts in the same housing. Is the fear that people will buy the carts and not the console? I would buy both. I didn't buy the FB1 and FB2 for the games, I bought them for the console and I would buy the FB3 for the same reason. 914157[/snapback] Strictly a marketer's view . . . A percentage of sales might not cover the lawyer fees for drawing up the contract in the first place. Companies need a minimum guarantee or it's not worth the paperwork. There's also a real cost in calculating and verifying the sales. Now look at the number of games on a Flashback. Each game would really be earning around 1% of the net. Unless it sells 5-10 million units, that's not enough of a percentage to most copyright owners to bother with. The marketing outlook for a standard 2600 slot is the opposite of what you assume: they feel people will buy the console and not the carts. Wal-Mart would be insane to give shelf space to 2600 carts. There would be no "razor blade" sales to support the "razor." You can get carts for 25 cents in any city, you're not gonna start shelling out $10 for an Adventure cart. What you're really asking is for the 2600 to be re-released. No need for it and not gonna happen. If we're getting a modern storage system, then we have the flexibitlity that users need plus potential for future FB3 products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobA Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 August 26th... Work begins :-) Yes.... there WILL be a cartridge slot... sorta Curt 913548[/snapback] I currently have FB2 and my friend is offering me about 20 cartridges for atari 2600 for free. You mean I will be able to use them on FB3? Thats awesome if its really included. Will it still look like the 2600? I'm lovin the current look of fb2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geosteve Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I hope to see this looking more like the 800 than the 5200, also give it 4 controller ports like the 400/800 & early 5200s had, but with 2 button controllers like the pro-lines. that flash cart idea would rule though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 (edited) I currently have FB2 and my friend is offering me about 20 cartridges for atari 2600 for free. You mean I will be able to use them on FB3? Thats awesome if its really included. Will it still look like the 2600? I'm lovin the current look of fb2. 996021[/snapback] The FB3 will NOT be a 2600-compatible platform like the FB2 ... Will it use the same hardware as FB2? Or will the obvious incompatibilities be fixed? 913658[/snapback] Different platform... Curt 913751[/snapback] Edited January 8, 2006 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobA Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 (edited) I currently have FB2 and my friend is offering me about 20 cartridges for atari 2600 for free. You mean I will be able to use them on FB3? Thats awesome if its really included. Will it still look like the 2600? I'm lovin the current look of fb2. 996021[/snapback] The FB3 will NOT be a 2600-compatible platform like the FB2 ... Will it use the same hardware as FB2? Or will the obvious incompatibilities be fixed? 913658[/snapback] Different platform... Curt 913751[/snapback] 996229[/snapback] It won't?! Ah man, that sucks, that means I will have no use for the cartridges or for the paddles I just ordered. Looks like I won't be buying fb3 after all. It's a shame I won't be able to use the cartridges. When curt said it will have a cartridge port, I assumed he meant for 2600 games. Edited January 8, 2006 by RobA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atwwong Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I currently have FB2 and my friend is offering me about 20 cartridges for atari 2600 for free. You mean I will be able to use them on FB3? Thats awesome if its really included. Will it still look like the 2600? I'm lovin the current look of fb2. 996021[/snapback] The FB3 will NOT be a 2600-compatible platform like the FB2 ... Will it use the same hardware as FB2? Or will the obvious incompatibilities be fixed? 913658[/snapback] Different platform... Curt 913751[/snapback] 996229[/snapback] It won't?! Ah man, that sucks, that means I will have no use for the cartridges or for the paddles I just ordered. Looks like I won't be buying fb3 after all. It's a shame I won't be able to use the cartridges. When curt said it will have a cartridge port, I assumed he meant for 2600 games. 996238[/snapback] What do you mean you'll have no use for the carts or paddles? Go get a 2600 from an online vendor (you don't have to get one off e-bay) or mod a cart port to the FB2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I hope to see this looking more like the 800 than the 5200, also give it 4 controller ports like the 400/800 & early 5200s had, but with 2 button controllers like the pro-lines. that flash cart idea would rule though The problem is that the more features that are added, the more expensive the machine will be. Part of the reason the FB2 has been a success is that it's quite inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 The problem is that the more features that are added, the more expensive the machine will be. Part of the reason the FB2 has been a success is that it's quite inexpensive. 996304[/snapback] One of the beautiful aspects of the Atari 800, though, is that the four joystick ports are already built into the design. If they're cloning that, they'd simply have to add an extra two connectors (an added cost, I know, but a small one) to give you a four-player option. Packing in two extra sticks might be too expensive and bulky, but they could start selling their FB2 joysticks seperately (which they really should do anyway since a lot of us could use some new CX-40 replacements). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskar42 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 "The FB3 will NOT be a 2600-compatible platform like the FB2 ..." so it's a 5200. right? there are so many places to get a 2600 that you'll have no problem finding a use for those paddles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 "The FB3 will NOT be a 2600-compatible platform like the FB2 ..."...so it's a 5200... right? Curt has dropped several hints that FB3 will be based on the 8-bit lineup. Since the FB2 has won a lot of praise for its 100% compatible CX-10 copies, I'd think it be smarter to stick with those controllers, and convert the controller input for any 5200-exclusive games that are included. Sounds like a great project. If it's as good a job as the FB2 I'll definitely buy one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Curt has dropped several hints that FB3 will be based on the 8-bit lineup. Since the FB2 has won a lot of praise for its 100% compatible CX-10 copies, I'd think it be smarter to stick with those controllers, and convert the controller input for any 5200-exclusive games that are included. Sounds like a great project. If it's as good a job as the FB2 I'll definitely buy one! 996464[/snapback] I agree, they should re-use the FB2 controllers for the FB3 because they were well-done and are all that the A8 games really need. That would save them money that would otherwise go toward developing new controllers. If there are games that require more buttons, I imagine they could pull out the inputs for a handful of keys, add them to the console itself, and reconfigure the games to use them. The C64 stick did something similar, as did the XEGS (with its pastel function keys). Regardless of what they do, though, I'll definitely be buying one too. Has anyone heard anything about a release date, or is it too early to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskar42 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 wow. The untimate factor though, is what Atari feels is marketable. An Arcade Flashback would be cool, but how would that work with a "sort of" cart slot? The 5200 is a solid piece of machine, but will enough people remember it make it profitable, especially if it has to compete against the rumored Nintendo NES plug and play? How about a Jaguar Flashback? We can all play Atari Karts! When people see Atari, they think 2600 VCS. A little sad, but true. 995742[/snapback] there won't be a Nintendo NES plug and play. Never happen. One of the Revolutions features is total Nintendo back catalog compatibility (NES, SNES,N64, Cube) Nintendo would never cut their own throats by releasing a cheaper product that might by seen as an alternative to their new console. Where did you hear this rumor? 995805[/snapback] Went back to the source and now it's gone, so maybe it's a nogo. As for nintendo cutting it's own throats with a plug and play, i think the market could handle a $20-$30 dollar plug/play box with 10-20 nes games without it overshadowing the revolution launch. even a jakks stick with 5 old nintendo arcade titles would probably sell pretty well. I mean Atari has been putting out complilations for pc and all major consol platforms for years and we all still bought flashbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n8littlefield Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I still don't understand how people think a 5200 based flashback would sell. I can count on one finger how many people I know had a 5200 back when it came out. I mean, you do need some nostalgia for these systems to sell well, and it just doesn't seem like many people get a warm fuzzy for the 5200. If they did the 5200 in terms of software, I really question if it will look like the 5200 in terms of the outer shell. You need people to see something that screams Atari to them, and the 5200 really doesn't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskar42 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 5200 had about 70 games, many of which some verson or other has already been released on prior flashbacks (centipede, missile command etc. ) many others atari does not own the rights to. and yes the 5200 is not a very memorable machine, I can't think of more than 2 people who had one new. I think the people at atari know this and they're planning something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 (edited) It's not the 5200 that they're resurrecting (at least I hope it isn't), but the Atari 400/800 computer series. The 400/800 might not be as recognizable to nearly as many as the 2600, but enough of the games are recognizable to make the FB3 a success, if indeed they're going in the direction I think they are. Think of an Atari equivalent of the C64 15-in-1 stick (which was very successful), in a console form factor and with the ability to plug in new cartridges, and you'll have a pretty good idea of what I'm predicting. Edited January 9, 2006 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 5200 had about 70 games, many of which some verson or other has already been released on prior flashbacks (centipede, missile command etc. ) many others atari does not own the rights to. and yes the 5200 is not a very memorable machine, I can't think of more than 2 people who had one new. I think the people at atari know this and they're planning something else. 996937[/snapback] No more like a 100. I disagree. It is a memorable machine. True it's not as popular as the 2600 but look how well it sells on eBay. I think you might be wrong about that last statement as well. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The 400/800 might not be as recognizable to nearly as many as the 2600, but enough of the games are recognizable to make the FB3 a success Think of an Atari equivalent of the C64 15-in-1 stick (which was very successful), in a console form factor and with the ability to plug in new cartridgesThat's my guess as well; I'm just not sure whether it'll be in a mini-5200 or a mini 400/800 case.How expensive are membrane keyboards? I can see something like a mock-400 with the touch membrane keyboard: that'd be great for any games like Star Raiders that use the keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 (edited) That's my guess as well; I'm just not sure whether it'll be in a mini-5200 or a mini 400/800 case.How expensive are membrane keyboards? I can see something like a mock-400 with the touch membrane keyboard: that'd be great for any games like Star Raiders that use the keyboard. 996949[/snapback] The case doesn't matter too much to me; whether it's a 5200 case or a 400/800 case, it should be a 400/800 internally. A membrane keyboard would be a very nice addition (and would be a feature that the competition doesn't have), but as you say, it all depends on cost. EDIT: Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing a cool new case design, either. In fact, it would be REALLY cool if Atari could bring in Regan Cheng or someone else from the old Atari's Industrial Design group to put one together for them, as someone else suggested earlier. That might help to give it a "retro" look that is consistent with Atari's other hardware but designed specifically for a next-generation TV-game console. Edited January 9, 2006 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie3 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 How about a mini XEGS (choose your own colour scheme) that accepts the old A8 cart standard and legacy Atari controllers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 How about a mini XEGS (choose your own colour scheme) that accepts the old A8 cart standard and legacy Atari controllers? 996967[/snapback] I like that idea! They might want to do something about the colors and the joystick connectors (straighten them and maybe move them to the front), but the basic design with its angled cartridge slot is very nice-looking and would scale well to a 2/3 size like the FB2. Now that I've looked at some pictures of the 400 for the first time in a long time, I think that design would scale well too. It's a very simple and clean design that would allow for an integrated keyboard, and it would look great sitting next to the other Flashbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskar42 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 5200 had about 70 games, many of which some verson or other has already been released on prior flashbacks (centipede, missile command etc. ) many others atari does not own the rights to. and yes the 5200 is not a very memorable machine, I can't think of more than 2 people who had one new. I think the people at atari know this and they're planning something else. 996937[/snapback] No more like a 100. I disagree. It is a memorable machine. True it's not as popular as the 2600 but look how well it sells on eBay. I think you might be wrong about that last statement as well. Allan 996941[/snapback] I really think it was around 70 games not counting unreleased prototypes. I like the 5200, it's a great machine, but to market it to a mass market would be very difficult. Atari is 2600 to many people. when someone said "i'm going to my friends to play atari" that's what people thought of. if you ask someone who's not an AA member to name some videogame consoles, the 5200 is not going to make the list. sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy2600 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 If everybody bitch about if Atari release the 5200 Flashback unit then how come the 7800 unit sold soo good and the 7800 was made in 84 but release in 86 that console was dead before its even hit the store. Let see how Atari will make this unit, if say it do have a cartirge port for a 2600, 520 or both maybe it will sells good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Everyone will want a 5200 FB3 because that was the system they all missed out on when they were kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskar42 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 If everybody bitch about if Atari release the 5200 Flashback unit then how come the 7800 unit sold soo good and the 7800 was made in 84 but release in 86 that console was dead before its even hit the store. Let see how Atari will make this unit, if say it do have a cartirge port for a 2600, 520 or both maybe it will sells good. 997111[/snapback] I guess some of that was english. The first flashback was not a 7800, it looked like a 7800 and had a collection of games from 2600 and 7800 consols. If it had a 2600 cart port, it would sell well, but we know it will not. I think it will be based on the 400/800 atari computer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilovesyou Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 So is there confirmation that the FB3 will NOT be a 2600 platform? ...hmmm. The XEGS idea sounds good, but isn't that still giving us a 2600 cart port? I'd go for that idea. When will we hear the word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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