danwinslow Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well...of course I have my ethernet thingy that I consider to be a fine upgrade, but what it really is is a very small 386 computer, and quite a few people seem dismissive of it therefore. I understand, but some things just aren't doable in a practical manner on an 8 bit computer, a complete full featured IP stack being one of them, at least if you wanted to still have any resources left over for actuall applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Howdy Drac030 As I understand the Atari documentation, there is no clear definition for $d600/$d700, but it can be understood from various drafts that these pages are NOT to be used by PBI devices, EXCEPT for just one: the 1090 expansion box. Maybe that is because that's the only PBI device Atari ever developed. The 1064 doesn't really could as a PBI device. There is even some support on the external bus for that - namely the D1xx signal, which facilitates register addressing at the device's side of affairs. There is no such signal for $d6/$d7. So a floppy/harddisk/printer interface has no point in using anything except $d100. $d1xx select is only on the XE's ECI port. The XL has a signal to swap all XL memory for external memory. It's either the EXTernalSELect line or the EXTernal ENable line. This has been suggested to him few days ago. Alternative locations proposed are: $d020-$d03f, $d700-$d71f or some other location on page $d6 (maybe the upper half of it or something). The first one would be the best IMHO. I'ld prefer the $d020-$d03f range too. If some piece of software does access this range, it probably expects to find the GTIA chip there. Since the Video Board XE supports most of the GTIA's functions, that wouldn't be a problem. PPS Will the Video Board XE do text? ANTIC does. Maybe I wasn't very clear. What I'ld like to know is, if the Video Board XE will make it possible to have text that is 80 columns wide. As I understand it, the Video Board XE works simular as the Video circuits on a C=128 or an MSX computer. The videochip on the C=128 will do 80 columns text, but uses only one address to exchange data with rest of th ecomputer. The MSX computers use Yamaha chips, which use more addresses to pump data to and from the rest of the computer. Most Yamaha chips will do text, except the latest one in the series, which will do the best graphics. Greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I would imagine that at the least we could do our own text graphics using bitmaps, if there is no direct text support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 (edited) ANTIC does. Maybe I wasn't very clear. What I'ld like to know is, if the Video Board XE will make it possible to have text that is 80 columns wide. No, because ANTIC doesn't do 80-column text modes. VBXE doesn't replace ANTIC, the video display is still generated by this chip. VBXE uses the information supplied by ANTIC in the same manner as does GTIA, and to the monochrome display adds colour information and sprites. Asking if VBXE can do text modes is like asking if GTIA can. It cannot. It is not a standalone gfx card, it is just a better GTIA. Maybe that is because that's the only PBI device Atari ever developed. I am not sure if they ever wanted to develop any standalone PBI device apart of 1090. As I understand, it was intended to just produce cards for 1090 instead of PBI devices. The only exception was the set of internal devices residing in 1450XLD (disk drives, mainly). Anyway, I wouldn't say that a PBI device that blocks all the bus ids and decodes itself permanently on d1/d6/d7/whatever is correctly designed. The mechanism allows to attach 8 of them and this should be maintained for user convenience. Edited March 11, 2006 by drac030 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 ANTIC does. Maybe I wasn't very clear. What I'ld like to know is, if the Video Board XE will make it possible to have text that is 80 columns wide. No, because ANTIC doesn't do 80-column text modes. VBXE doesn't replace ANTIC, the video display is still generated by this chip. VBXE uses the information supplied by ANTIC in the same manner as does GTIA, and to the monochrome display adds colour information and sprites. Asking if VBXE can do text modes is like asking if GTIA can. It cannot. It is not a standalone gfx card, it is just a better GTIA. 1031665[/snapback] Hmpf.... Hello? There is a video chip with a high resolution... using "endless sprites"... Ofcourse it will be possible (even if I am not the developer) to use 80 columns. The screen has it's own memory, so once the display is set, the "characters" are written onto the screen. One "simply" has to write an XEP compatible driver for this and everything will be ok ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Um...yeah. Thats what I was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 (edited) There is a video chip with a high resolution... Yes. The "high resolution" is the resolution of GR.8. So you can do 80-column as well as on an Atari without the VBXE. Edited March 11, 2006 by drac030 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 There is a video chip with a high resolution... Yes. The "high resolution" is the resolution of GR.8. So you can do 80-column as well as on an Atari without the VBXE. 1031736[/snapback] What's the native resolution of the chip exactly (usable for the sprites) Even if the resolution is restricted to 320*200, you have 65k colours for antialiasing the characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 What's the native resolution of the chip exactly (usable for the sprites)Even if the resolution is restricted to 320*200, you have 65k colours for antialiasing the characters. If you say so :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Howdy Drac030 Anyway, I wouldn't say that a PBI device that blocks all the bus ids and decodes itself permanently on d1/d6/d7/whatever is correctly designed. The mechanism allows to attach 8 of them and this should be maintained for user convenience. I'm not happy about that either. Part of that can be solved I heard for little money. Unfortunately, the guy who said that didn't wanna tell me how. Matthias (of MSC-IDE fame) no longer responds to email it seems. But it seems that Bob Puff (who designed the BlackBox) agrees. But the MSC-IDE Interface works simular (in that it uses the same addresses. But the MSC-IDE Interface (which is no longer available) doesn't block the id's. Stephan (the other half of MSC) even tried out MSC-IDE Interfaces at the same time and it worked.) as does the (prototype of the) PC-Bridge. BTW the MIO Interface seems to be worse then the BlackBox, but also uses the same address range. I'm not sure about the SupraInterface (a.k.a. the KP-Interface, which btw is looking for a designer who seriously wants to have a look at it), but I guess it too uses this address range. Greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I'm not happy about that either. Part of that can be solved I heard for little money. Unfortunately, the guy who said that didn't wanna tell me how. Matthias (of MSC-IDE fame) no longer responds to email it seems. But it seems that Bob Puff (who designed the BlackBox) agrees. The thing that actually surprises me is that the BlackBox - which is relatively expensive device, and so you could at least expect high quality - abuses the PBI bus. Maybe most developers are like "eh, there are no other devices to use the PBI and who cares anyway", but this is completely wrong. According to my estimations, there are at least eight third-party designs like that, not counting the 1090 itself. You say that msc-IDE is OK, and I can add that also KMK/JŻ IDE can behave (even if it uses the same address range dedicated to PBI as well, i.e. $D1xx). For other devices I don't know. I think that the original design of the Karin-Maxi drive blocks the bus, but later the designer promised to fix that. I don't know if he did, and he's not with us, unfortunately. KP-Interface, which btw is looking for a designer who seriously wants to have a look at it) Could you explain this? (despite that we're far off topic now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Howdy Drac030 KP-Interface, which btw is looking for a designer who seriously wants to have a look at it) Could you explain this? The SupraInterface was developed and sold by Supra Corporation, who also made modems. Than, Bob Klaas bought the rights and renamened it to KP-Interface. He sold the interface (the rights and everything) to somebody else. Unfortunately, this person doesn't know anything about electronics. But he IS looking for somebody who is willing and able to have a look at it and improve on it. Unfortunately, I can not mention this persons name. But if somebody tells me (s)he wants to do it, I can pass the message to the owner of the interface. BTW if somebody is interested, it would be nice if this person can prove that (s)he really is capable of improving the interface. greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I posted this on the AtariArea in case anyone is interested. Does that person (the rights owner) have ideas about improvements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Howdy Drac030 I posted this on the AtariArea in case anyone is interested. Does that person (the rights owner) have ideas about improvements? He does. At the moment, somebody is working on it already. Unfortunately, I wasn't informed about this before I posted the message here, sorry. If problems will occure, help will be appreciated. So volunteers can line up already. :-)) greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Very easily technical info from Tomasz about his project: http://atariarea.krap.pl/pliki/rozne/vbxe.pdf (in Polish language now, but with simple tech info easy to translate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Howdy Sikor, folks Very easily technical info from Tomasz about his project: http://atariarea.krap.pl/pliki/rozne/vbxe.pdf (in Polish language now, but with simple tech info easy to translate). I hope it will be translated in English or German soon. Dutch would be fine too. :-) greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Can't read Polish and the automated web translation leaves much to be desired, but noticed they have a new larger image up. Multiple sprites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariusz Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Here is picture mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Howdy Folks Here is picture mentioned above. I put the above picture on my site at www.mathyvannisselroy.nl, look at the bottom of my special stuff page. If somebody has more pictures or a text in English, I will be glad to put it up there too. Greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachocientos Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 It's amazing!. I'd buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 The cost of the parts is about 200-250 zł (50-60 €) Are these for sale yet, and if so, what is the final price and where can I get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Not yet. It is announced that there will be a presentation on the QuaST party 2006. The device should be available for purchase after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Not yet. It is announced that there will be a presentation on the QuaST party 2006. The device should be available for purchase after that. Do you know if it will work with NTSC, or is it PAL only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Not yet. It is announced that there will be a presentation on the QuaST party 2006. The device should be available for purchase after that. Do you know if it will work with NTSC, or is it PAL only? It's RGB device - so, I think, you can use it in any RGB devices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Not yet. It is announced that there will be a presentation on the QuaST party 2006. The device should be available for purchase after that. Do you know if it will work with NTSC, or is it PAL only? It's RGB device - so, I think, you can use it in any RGB devices... Duh, good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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