Flojomojo Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Actually, I love the 32X. I think it was actually the quick death of the Saturn that doomed them. There were so many great games that never came over from Japan and a lot of the last titles released were mind-blowing. If Shining Force 3 and Panzer Dragoon Saga were released earlier along with the Japanese games...who knows what could have happened. *I* know what would have happened. Sega would have lost even more money on the Saturn, and the future of the Dreamcast would have been questionable. The hype surrounding the Playstation was pretty much unstoppable. By the time Sega of America pulled the plug in 1998, they were hip-deep in debt. The Saturn had been discounted as low as it could posibly go, and was bundled with a ton of great arcade ports the whole time. There's simply no way two semi-obscure J-RPGs would have saved the system, regardless of the time of release. Not enough people were buying the system, so no one would have bought the extra games which would have been published at Sega of America's expense. We got plenty of excellent games in the USA, and importing from Japan was always easy. Now if Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter looked better than Ridge Racer and Toshinden, things could have been different, maybe. They certainly played better, but I think we all know that's not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 (edited) Did not having the capability to play DVD's like the PS2 hurt the Dreamcast? People claim it did, I don't think it really mattered. It was just one more thing people could say "Dude, the PS2 is gonna be way better" with. Remember, the XBox can't play DVD out of the box, and the GameCube can't play them at all. Remmber this though: Before PS2 came out, DVD players were still quite expensive. When PS2 came out, it was an economical way to: 1. Get the new Sony System 2. Play the old Sony games *AND* 3. Play DVDs. After the PS2 came out, DVD players really began to drop in price. But for many, PS2 was the first "economical" way to play DVDs because you could kill two birds with one stone. Edited April 7, 2006 by DracIsBack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I think what doomed the Dreamcast was its launch. It didn't help, but I don't think it was the major factor in dooming DC. All systems have funny launch quirks and DC was no exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Did not having the capability to play DVD's like the PS2 hurt the Dreamcast? People claim it did, I don't think it really mattered. It was just one more thing people could say "Dude, the PS2 is gonna be way better" with. Remember, the XBox can't play DVD out of the box, and the GameCube can't play them at all. Remmber this though: Before PS2 came out, DVD players were still quite expensive. When PS2 came out, it was an economical way to: 1. Get the new Sony System 2. Play the old Sony games *AND* 3. Play DVDs. After the PS2 came out, DVD players really began to drop in price. But for many, PS2 was the first "economical" way to play DVDs because you could kill two birds with one stone. Japan-centric argument which is factually incorrect in the global and US markets. I had a 100$ DVD player a year before the PS2 came out in the US. The average US DVD player at the time was 200(300 for Divx compatible players). The PS2 launcched at 300 in the US(if I recall correctly). It was 3x the cheapest way to watch DVDs, 50% more than the norm, and did a worse job at it than either option(early PS2s had notoriously glitchy players). It WAS, however, the cheapest way for Japan to watch DVDs, as the DVD player manufacturers had been gouging the crap out of consumers. And most launch PS2s in Japan WERE sold as DVD players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Japan-centric argument which is factually incorrect in the global and US markets. I had a 100$ DVD player a year before the PS2 came out in the US. The average US DVD player at the time was 200(300 for Divx compatible players). The PS2 launcched at 300 in the US(if I recall correctly). It was 3x the cheapest way to watch DVDs, 50% more than the norm, and did a worse job at it than either option(early PS2s had notoriously glitchy players). It WAS, however, the cheapest way for Japan to watch DVDs, as the DVD player manufacturers had been gouging the crap out of consumers. And most launch PS2s in Japan WERE sold as DVD players. Actually, it was Canadian-Centric. At that same time , DVD players WERE slightly behind the US in price. They were still generally quite expensive (brand name versions, anyway) and many folks I knew were just as excited about the PS2 being able to play DVDs as they were about it being the new Sony console. What I found that the arrival of the PS2 actually drove DVD player prices down. But my point still stands ... having built in, out of the box DVD compatibility was a major selling feature that the Dreamcast did not have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaXpress Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I know a lot of people who were sold on the PS2 because of the DVD. It was like getting two pieces of hardware for the price of one. Of course, they soon converted to real DVD players. Blu-Ray won't have the same impact because the mass market doesn't see a need for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I know a lot of people who were sold on the PS2 because of the DVD. It was like getting two pieces of hardware for the price of one. Of course, they soon converted to real DVD players. Blu-Ray won't have the same impact because the mass market doesn't see a need for it. That's a major diffrence between PS2 and PS3. DVD was at a reasonable mass-market level. People wanted it, and the actual manufacturing costs were low enough that it was competitive with CD-ROM. It didn't cost Sony a lot to make the PS2 use use DVD. BluRay is pricey. The PS3 has to cover the costs of the new technology or take a loss to keep prices down. Sony's trying to MAKE people want it by packing it in with the PS3. Consoles typically don't use cutting-edge hardware because they have a low target price. This is a new trend, and one that probably won't last, if I had to bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurking Horror Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) Stupid decisions killed SEGA. Some of them, as mentioned in other posts, are so incredibly dumb that they seems to be stuff of urban legend. But they happened. Sony had a lot of hype but the first lot of games was a sad bunch of crap and Sony had zero gaming experience at the time. If managed by smart people Sega would be able to deal with that. But, of course, smart people would had never launched the 32X (Whose only good game was Kolibri, the best Humming Bird based horizontal scrolling shooter ever made as pointed by the Penny-Arcade guys ) and that FMV games that plagued the Sega CD... Edited April 8, 2006 by The Lurking Horror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtesi Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I have to admit.... I'm sorry When the PSX was out I seen battle arena toshinden and my jaw hit the floor. Yeah.. its a crap game... we make mistakes... but god those graphics looked awesome for its time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 But, of course, smart people would had never launched the 32X (Whose only good game was Kolibri, the best Humming Bird based horizontal scrolling shooter ever made as pointed by the Penny-Arcade guys ) I want StarWars Arcade. Maybe T-Mek(I'm curious). and that FMV games that plagued the Sega CD... Aww, cut 'em some slack. FMV was "the future." They hadn't quite relaized that they needed gameplay under the novelty. The big thing there is... the SCD was a horrid FMV platform. The color depth for half-decent live-action FMV just wasn't there, and that's what they were pushing. I have to admit.... I'm sorry When the PSX was out I seen battle arena toshinden and my jaw hit the floor. Yeah.. its a crap game... we make mistakes... but god those graphics looked awesome for its time... Cousin had Toshinden on his Saturn. All I remember is it had an option to map moves to spare controller buttons and a chick with a whip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeV0 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Ive been thinking about this topic again and i do think sony's marketing played a major role in both cases. Only my friends who where already video game junkies (Didnt buy crapware) seemed to want the saturn and dreamcast. The psx imho gave gaming to the world and every regular joe had one, the logical thing to do was get the ps2 aftwards. Not bad mouthing all non video game nuts but i really do the the marketng and what i consider the real introduction to the world of video games killed segas machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord1977 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) Hardly anyone gave a shit about the Sega CD or the Saturn for that matter so the Dreamcast wasn't affected either. Sega didn't come up with any hits after the Genesis so backwards-compatibility wasn't a system seller to anyone but Sega fans. The weirdness is that the Saturn and Dreamcast were as good or better than the competition. Yet Sony kicked their ass because they had a better marketing department. There's no other reason. Sony got the jump on Saturn in mass consumer appeal and rode that pony into today. the reason they failed was not because of their games or hardware etc.(i think sega has always made excellent systems).they fell because of lack of advertising..it wasnt enough to grab peoples attention and in my opinion, the saturn was better than the ps1 Edited April 8, 2006 by darklord1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Hardly anyone gave a shit about the Sega CD or the Saturn for that matter so the Dreamcast wasn't affected either. Sega didn't come up with any hits after the Genesis so backwards-compatibility wasn't a system seller to anyone but Sega fans. The weirdness is that the Saturn and Dreamcast were as good or better than the competition. Yet Sony kicked their ass because they had a better marketing department. There's no other reason. Sony got the jump on Saturn in mass consumer appeal and rode that pony into today. the reason they failed was not because of their games or hardware etc.(i think sega has always made excellent systems).they fell because of lack of advertising..it wasnt enough to grab peoples attention and in my opinion, the saturn was better than the ps1 Sega DID advertize. Both times. As for attention-grabbinbg... The Saturn had a 2-page ad prominently featuring a naked woman. They were trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariJr Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 the saturn was better than the ps1 amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800Lover Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Well, Atariboy, I think it was a number of factors. I believe that it was the intense competition from Nintendo, Sony, and the PC market. It also may have been the selection of games. But the biggest factor...Sega's own fault. With all the systems they had, my take is that they ended up stretching their user base too thin. Besides the Sega Genesis (dying by the time Saturn made its debut) and the Sega CD, you also had the ill-fated 32X that really hurt Sega's financial situation and reputation. Much like Atari, they once dominated the market and lost it all by repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaXpress Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Okay, I admit it. I killed the Saturn. I shot it down in Reno, just to watch it die. I'm sorry. So very, very sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Okay, I admit it. I killed the Saturn. I shot it down in Reno, just to watch it die. I'm sorry. So very, very sorry. Well, you at least came clean. I'm sure that will get you leniency at the sentencing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariJr Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Okay, I admit it. I killed the Saturn. I shot it down in Reno, just to watch it die. I'm sorry. So very, very sorry. I call the first free punch for pay back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 As much as I love Sega, they were idiots. 32x, Sega CD then Saturn... I mean...how many new consoles can the average consumer swallow? Idiots. Then the Dreamcast came along, very nice system and it seemed they finally figured it out but guess what? Playstation and its great library of games (with great programmers, look at the CGI on some of those FF games) and HUGE fan following made it impossible to compete. The only one capable is Microsoft. But I love my PS2 (and soon to be PS3), so I could give a damn really. The games are what count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 (with great programmers, look at the CGI on some of those FF games) Ummm... that's not really an indicator of great programming. Any idiot can play back a pre-rendered FMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 (with great programmers, look at the CGI on some of those FF games) Ummm... that's not really an indicator of great programming. Any idiot can play back a pre-rendered FMV. I'm an idiot then cause I can't design scene's like those.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 (edited) (with great programmers, look at the CGI on some of those FF games) Ummm... that's not really an indicator of great programming. Any idiot can play back a pre-rendered FMV. I'm an idiot then cause I can't design scene's like those.... Sure it takes an excellent graphics designer, or cinematographer, to create the scene, but that has nothing to do with computer programming. Anybody fresh from their first programming class can tell the console how to play the scene. Edited April 9, 2006 by skunkworx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 (with great programmers, look at the CGI on some of those FF games) Ummm... that's not really an indicator of great programming. Any idiot can play back a pre-rendered FMV. I'm an idiot then cause I can't design scene's like those.... Sure it takes an excellent graphics designer, or cinematographer, to create the scene, but that has nothing to do with computer programming. Anybody fresh from their first programming class can tell the console how to play the scene. Right. Elaborating... FMV isn't being drawn on the game machine. That's why it's called also called a pre-rendered cutscene. It was drawn on something far more powerful, and the final images were saved in a format the game machine can read. The game machine is just loading and displaying those static images really fast. That's why you can't change an FMV sequence. ... Well, it's a bit more complex than that if you have any form of compression, but the concept is the same(it just takes a bit of work to reconstruct the images from the compressed format). All cutscenes of a given format are created equal in the eyes of a programer, regardless of length or complexity. My 2-frame animation of stick figures beating each other up(yes, I drew one) is as hard to program as FF7's long and elaborate cutscenes. FF7's cutscenes are a lot harder to draw initially, though. And there was a lot of render time involved on the workstations those things were designed on before it was given to the PS for display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripletopper Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) No, it wasn't. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64456 You're both right. Sega's history is not distinctly American or Japanese but had those two elements blended from the beginning. Sega, which is short for SErvice GAmes, (I don't know if there is a Japanese word pronounced Sega other than the company name) It was founded by Americans who made the games in Japan to be put on US Armed Forces bases that were physically located in Japan. They got their start making mechanical games, and ventured into the video game business in the 70's and 80's. In the 80's they were bought by Gulf + Western, the same conglomerate company that owned Paramount Pictures, hence why Sega had the rights to the official Star Trek strategic simulator game, (even though it was more of an action game). After the crash, since their factories were in Japan, but had American owners, Sega had a culture shift in the year they sold it to Japanese interests, but the original company owners had stock in the the company, so they were still a mix of US and Japanese, but the New Japanese and American owners became 2 partially competing, partially cooperating companies. That's why they never had a consistent worldwide hit. Master System's territory was Brazil and Europe, Genesis was US and Europe, (with the Master System still the number 1 system in Brazil), Saturn in Japan, and Dreamcast in the US. But that's true, it's probably resentment of their former American bosses and they made the Genesis a success, and the 32X and Saturn went in 2 opposite directions, so there have been some resentment, and Sega was the most American system maker since Atari and before Microsoft. Edited January 3, 2017 by tripletopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 why you quote a decade old post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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