Heaven/TQA Posted June 25, 2006 Author Share Posted June 25, 2006 huj... not to mention, assembler, forth, c++, basic, perl and all other strange languages...which i never touched in 20 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost... Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 i can not tell you how many i have learned since i am started this project... randomness in games, drawing mazes/dungeons, citiblock distance... iso engines... plus plus plus... i hope you have fun as well... Me too!!! It's a very interesting thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 PG... which size of sprites would fit to your background tiles? 2x2 or 2x3? what do you think for enemies/player? Well, I can adjust to what you need. Is it now clear how big the sprites will be? and how will the PMG be used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 i hope you have fun as well... As an interested lurker, definitely. I'd also like to say that you are all insane in the best way possible I remember doing dungeon map algorithms for an older project, and for my Tunnels of Doom port that I was doing for the ST. Damn thing was like 80% complete, I wish I could find the source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 PG. no its not defined yet. as it depends on the gfx if they look good or not... but i guess it will be 2x2 as otherwise the wall is no wall... what is defined that its unlikely that the player sprites will be formed out of PMG as i want to use PMG for gfx effects and other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 and i know now how hard it was in the 70s 80s to write such games without the internet...maybe that's why many students wrote games because they had the machines and the knowledge f.e. at MIT etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost... Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 and i know now how hard it was in the 70s 80s to write such games without the internet...maybe that's why many students wrote games because they had the machines and the knowledge f.e. at MIT etc? and not to forget the long compile times without an emulator/cross assembler. Btw - I use a 800XL with the new FreezerXL - which means I have still long compile times - but the real thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) and i know now how hard it was in the 70s 80s to write such games without the internet...maybe that's why many students wrote games because they had the machines and the knowledge f.e. at MIT etc? and not to forget the long compile times without an emulator/cross assembler. Btw - I use a 800XL with the new FreezerXL - which means I have still long compile times - but the real thing The more it makes me wonder that people wrote software on a machine with a half speed CPU and a Floppy-Drive that allowes to drink a full bottle of coffee until something happened Ofcourse the software was created and compiled on faster machines. And btw: You guys are talking about "students" .... well... I never went to an University(because of lacking money nor I know a professional programmer. The programs like "Admirandus" "XL-ST Schiffeversenken" , and some others before, are products by reading some Magazines and entering listings from them and learning from books, and there wasn't something like "internet" available in that time. Heck... I surely was the only "electrician apprentice" in 1984-85 who wrote software for visualizing the characteristics of the "dependings of the electric waveforms" .... It was all for the cause of fun... Edited June 26, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 yeah. there were a lot of people (me either...) who are and were teaching the stuff themselfs... by reading magazine listing and books... but... have a look at some brilliant atari games... it looks like big amount of people have a technical or engineering background... i mean 2600 programming without deep knowledge seems to me a miracle... and without maths & physik skills how can you write certain type of games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) yeah. there were a lot of people (me either...) who are and were teaching the stuff themselfs... by reading magazine listing and books... but... have a look at some brilliant atari games... it looks like big amount of people have a technical or engineering background... i mean 2600 programming without deep knowledge seems to me a miracle... This... and they know each other... learning from each other. So people say "Jay Miner" was a genious. Set him (theoretically) into a village near the sahara... How far would he have gone there? Or Bill Gates. He knew Gary Kildall who told him all necessary about OS-functionality.... and without maths & physik skills how can you write certain type of games? Actually in my "apprentice time" I always had the best notes in maths and technical knowledge(physics). The teacher (assistant master) told me to study maths. Well, I spelled the formulas(algebra) before he wrote them on the blackboard.... Seriously... for the most games (like space invaders or Run'n'Jumps) on 8 bit computers you don't need deep knowledge about maths and physics. The restrictions are given by the machine and simple maths like "addition" or "multiplication" is needed. The "bit calculating" is self speaking. Edited June 26, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Seriously... for the most games (like space invaders or Run'n'Jumps) on 8 bit computers you don't need deep knowledge about maths and physics. The restrictions are given by the machine and simple maths like "addition" or "multiplication" is needed. The "bit calculating" is self speaking. What I am trying to say is that you have to be "trained" in coding and the used programming-language, to have real good results. Math and physics are "side" knowledge then. Well... even the most complex 3D is "simple" geometric calculation with a relative position for each object. It only looks "huge", because todays Computers can handle thousands of them for one scene. And with a pre-defined library, the usage is repeating the same functions with different settings. Which means, you can always use the same "old" commands and routines.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 i doubt that. think of some genres... look f.e. rescue on fractalus MULE seven cities of gold ultima eastfront etc... they might look good from coding point of view but the engine behind that needs far more knowledge where coding is not the key point but the maths & physics. hope you get my point here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 i doubt that. think of some genres... look f.e. rescue on fractalus MULE seven cities of gold ultima eastfront etc... they might look good from coding point of view but the engine behind that needs far more knowledge where coding is not the key point but the maths & physics. hope you get my point here... The only Game here with really complex maths seems "Rescue on Fractalus". And,yes, if someone tells me that the ball in "pinball dreams" needs heavy maths, I believe it. Seven cities of gold may look complex but it inhabits simple "adding" of given values, MULE and Ultima, too. Eastfront I don't know. The most work in MULE or 7CoG is to adjust the values to have recognizable parallels to the real thing. Which means knowledge about "marketing strategy" and "fighting strategy".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 emkay... i am not talking about the actual code... i am talking about the rules... look at mule source code and you see what i mean... and i am sure that 7 cities is looking simple but the game logic behind might be more complex as it looks on the surface... same to mule... and all these rules together make the game fun... and the fun part is NOT what you get teached at school... but you must think in complex systems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gauntman Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I tried to make some staircase graphics, but I realized that the stairs will overlay the floor, so again we have a problem with sprites/graphics priority. Anyone got an idea how to solve it? Perhaps to build the stairs into the walls. Or the stairs could only be in a corner. To get back to a diablo-clone... I notice many games tend to have the stairs going up embedded into the walls - Diablo 1 did this and 2 has this on some tilesets. Dungeon Master on the ST did this as well (admittedly, this was a first person view). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 the mapper drive me crazy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 you guys could do me a real favour... the PG gfx is set up in different tiles sizes, some 4x2 some 2x2 some 1x1... sorry... i am too tired to figure it out... i tried charpad and envision to quickly get the wall tile correct sizes...so they can easily repainted and pasted... i just see pixels in fron of my eyes... can some of you just give me the 4 different walls? just show me or mark them... simply i have to know the right offsets for the mapper... so i can adjust the routines for each tile (floor, wall1, wall 2 etc...) thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) you guys could do me a real favour... the PG gfx is set up in different tiles sizes, some 4x2 some 2x2 some 1x1... sorry... i am too tired to figure it out... i tried charpad and envision to quickly get the wall tile correct sizes...so they can easily repainted and pasted... i just see pixels in fron of my eyes... can some of you just give me the 4 different walls? just show me or mark them... simply i have to know the right offsets for the mapper... so i can adjust the routines for each tile (floor, wall1, wall 2 etc...) thanks a lot! Is this what you need? Edited June 26, 2006 by pseudografx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost... Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Is this what you need? pseudografx - I am curious - which tool do you use to create your gfx? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Is this what you need? pseudografx - I am curious - which tool do you use to create your gfx? :-) I use Paint Shop Pro X with palettes from the emulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 PG... i do not mean the raster 4x2 overlay over the picture but i would need the tile puzzles... which you used to construct the whole scene. and i mean not the chars because i can load them into any char editor but it costs time to look at the picture and assume f.e. how i can easily draw a wall... without puzzling the stuff together... as far as i see as an example... the wall consists 2x4 chars... this is important to know to define the rules how the mapper will paint the tiles correctly on screen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 and the wall consists of several tiles... A CD EF G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 damned ascii... A.CDEF.G[code] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 (edited) PG... i do not mean the raster 4x2 overlay over the picture but i would need the tile puzzles... which you used to construct the whole scene. and i mean not the chars because i can load them into any char editor but it costs time to look at the picture and assume f.e. how i can easily draw a wall... without puzzling the stuff together... as far as i see as an example... the wall consists 2x4 chars... this is important to know to define the rules how the mapper will paint the tiles correctly on screen... Heaven, you're always thinking tooooo complex. When drawing a wall, you first need to draw the "lineup" of the walls. That's why I suggested, you should use the ATARI chars first for a better imagination. After the wall drawing is ok, someone may create a charset (in colour) that fits better to the gameplay. Another impression: To have the "orthogonal" aspect corrected in the ISO-3D view, two chars are needed (I used one) The stairs are build by 3 chars. And there is a "round corner" ... Edited June 27, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 no..no... at the moment i want to use PGs gfx set which imho i really like... even it takes more time to build up a scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.