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[Pitfall Harry]

quote:

---

Originally posted by StanJr:

Due to Ryan's abuse of the poorly managed ebay system. Without ebay he would have to stick to robbing old ladies mailboxes and leave the rest of us alone.

 

A murder can't shoot somebody if you don't let him buy a gun. The gun's not evil, but it can be bent to evil purpose.

 

I hate ebay pretty much because of what it turns people into. It can really bring out the worst in people. Which is why we've got the situation here. Ebay has given Ryan the opportunity to exploit people's ignorance and trust to his own devious ends. Worse yet, thanks to ebay's lack of management, he can do it in a relatively consequence-free environment. I think ebay is more trouble than its worth.

---

 

 

Stan, robbing old ladies and mailboxes is pretty bad too, don't you think?

 

I wouldn't be so opposed to eBay simply because there are thieves in this world who would rip us off by twisting the system. EVERYTHING can be bent to evil purpose. You could murder someone with a loaf of stale bread if you really set your mind to it. Boycotting eBay to protect us collectors from fraud makes as much sense to me as outlawing bread.

 

EBay is here, and it's not going away. It is e-commerce at its finest, the grand outdoor marketplace for the common folk of the 21st century. Billions of dollars worth of merchandise is sold through eBay every year. With so much volume and so much money, is it any wonder that evil people are attracted to it? It's not the system, Stan. It's the money.

 

Anywhere there is money, there will be Ryans. Hackers rip off financial institutions all the time. Security systems are broken, funds are illegally transferred to Swiss bank accounts, CEO's turn to insider trading to make the fun money they need to get through their getaway weekends. Millionaire politicians toil through untold sleepless nights, sparing no taxpayer expense, to ensure they retire as billionaires.

 

So, which of our many evil institutions should we thinking citizens boycott in order to protect society from certain fraud? Computers? Banks? The Internet? Should we abolish our government to safeguard us from taxpayer fraud? Perhaps we should tear down every last skyscraper in Manhattan before some godless bastard tries to take them away from us.

 

We shouldn't be boycotting things and tearing down our own infrastructure just because we see the cracks in the system. It's better to light a candle than it is to curse the darkness. Whenever we discover gaping weaknesses in our great financial systems, we should work all the harder to fix them, to preserve our way of life. For literally millions of good folks around the globe, eBay IS a way of life. Especially for many of us here on the AtariAge message boards. It is worth supporting. It is worth fixing, wherever and however we can.

 

This past week, when Ryan "bug90" Kinman capitalized on weakness within eBay and tried to rip so many of us off, Atari collectors were united by a sense of outrage. Rather than denounce eBay as a flawed and dangerous system, we worked together within the system to shut this dirtbag down. The unity of effort displayed by the Atari collecting community in the past few days, both here at AtariAge and by our brothers at Digital Press, was an experience I shall never forget. These two websites have done more good things for the hobby than anyone can count. But never have I been more proud to be associated with them than I have been this week. For it was in this past week that we proved that good things are worth fighting for, and that in fighting the good fight we can win. We rose up together as a community and wiped eBay clean of a particularly nasty scourge. We warned and protected our own from forking over thousands of dollars to an evil, evil man. But most importantly, we alerted eBay to a great weakness in their system.

 

Whether this incident is the wake-up call eBay needs to implement tighter security measures is irrelavent. EBay heard us, and they took action on our behalf. Ryan Kinman masquerading as Bug90, Buzz46 and Baby98 will rip us off no more. All three accounts have been shut down by eBay. Atari collectors have voted and our voices have been heard. When eBay finally does take measures to shore up the Ryan Kinman loopholes, we can again take pride in knowing that our actions contributed to hastening the day that such decisions were finally made. To the Ryan Kinmans of the world: We made a difference, and we will continue to make a difference.

 

And to Ryan Kinman in particular, F**K YOU!!!

 

Ben

[smile_walle]

Ben's quote:

quote:

---

Whether this incident is the wake-up call eBay needs to implement tighter security measures is irrelavent. EBay heard us, and they took action on our behalf. Ryan Kinman masquerading as Bug90, Buzz46 and Baby98 will rip us off no more. All three accounts have been shut down by eBay. Atari collectors have voted and our voices have been heard. When eBay finally does take measures to shore up the Ryan Kinman loopholes, we can again take pride in knowing that our actions contributed to hastening the day that such decisions were finally made. To the Ryan Kinmans of the world: We made a difference, and we will continue to make a difference.

 

---

Yes, I full agreed with Ben's statement about E-Bay between Ryan's.

I was so angry at Ryan, beacuse he trying to steal the money from true collectors (bidders). I just hope that E-Bay MUST wake up and watchout any fraud sellers who trying to steal the money.

It was unbelievable how this message board lots of supports and fight agianst the fraud sellers and must remove it....

I know all of us was very serious corderned about E-Bay seem not pay attention what happened recently bug90, buzz46 and baby98.

So now we must be very careful no matter who the sellers try to be fraud and stealing the money....You know what I mean???

Im glad that Ryan kick it out from E-Bay, never that happen again in the future!!!

 

....Jason

[Rick Weis]

i Agree!!!

 

well said Ben!.. very well said!

 

i will give an update when all is said and done! (about getting the money back)

 

Take Care,

 

Rick

[StanJr]

Ben, I totally see your point and I also agree with much of it, but the problem with ebay harkens back to the fundamental problem with free-form captialism. The desire and drive to achieve higher and higher profit causes morally weak (and even some strongly moral) people to compromise themselves to get "more." These profiteers will abuse, bend, twist, and pervert anything and everything to achieve that greater profit. They sacrifice everything for it and in the process ruin the "system" and its tools for the rest of us. Spoilt milk is spoilt milk, no matter how much chocolate syrup you put it in or how long you try to hold on to it and keep it cold.

Ebay is GREATLY flawed and requires MUCH revision, much like our American capitalistic system. This is why I want it replaced with a better system or at the very least better monitored and maintained by people who care about you the consumer.

 

And if you think you have stopped Ryan with your effort here, you are sadly mistaken. You may have slowed him, but he will be back, again and again. And if its not Ryan, it will be Bob or Terry or whoever. Until the system is fixed, there will always be someone dastardly enough to exploit it for the greater evil. Sadly for all of us, there are far too many of that ilk.

 

 

Here I go again, Stan

[videotwit]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Philflound:

Well, I guess you can say that, but I personally own about 610 or so games for the 2600, including all those you listed, plus alot more rare ones including 11 prototypes. I think many of the bigger collectors probably have most of the games, so it's not uncommon for a big collector to part with his collection. I don't think I'd ever part with my collection.

---

 

This is where I think I need to add my 2 cents...

 

As most of you know, I have been collecting for many, many years now, and have been an active member of the Classic Gaming Community since the mid-90's.

 

That been said... I am currently in the process of auctioning off all of my Atari 2600 collection via eBay. As Philflound mentioned in his post, it is not unheard of for someone with a big collection, including many rarities, to dispose of their collection. as a personal example, I am getting ready to auction off some of the more rare items in my collection in the next couple of months (including a Quadrun, Video Cube, Diagnostic and Signal Tracing carts, etc.).

 

I just do not want this to turn out to be a eBay "witch hunt" for people selling rare games. While I agree that "Bug90" (amongst his other aliases) is a complete scum for ripping people off, I do not want legitimate sellers to be dragged into this ruccus.

 

Just keep this in mind... There are legitimate sellers outn there with some pretty incredible stuff.

 

On the flip side, it is great to watch out for each other. Just don't get too anxious in your skepticism.

[goatdan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyzzy:

In a previous known-bogus auction by this guy that was cancelled by eBay just days ago, he used "Go Reds" as his location. Do you think it's coincidence that this new person changed their eBay account, put Quadrun up, both in the same day, and happens to use "Go Phillies" for his location? Also, he knows that we have identified the BIN as part of his MO and is simply adding some variety here by setting a reserve. I could be wrong and will apologize if I am. I don't think we should jump at every Quadrun auction either, but this is WAY too coincidental for me to buy.

---

 

I've been watching this thread but I haven't commented because I really haven't had anything to say until now -- Is it a coincidence that the wording on this auction is nearly the EXACT SAME as the bug90 et el's auctions?

 

I really hope it isn't, as I really enjoy eBay for what I can, but the fact is eBay doesn't police themselves very well (anyone tried to buy a Dreamcast game recently and noticed the hundreds of pirate game auctions are up there?)

[goatdan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by twit:

I just do not want this to turn out to be a eBay "witch hunt" for people selling rare games. While I agree that "Bug90" (amongst his other aliases) is a complete scum for ripping people off, I do not want legitimate sellers to be dragged into this ruccus.

---

 

Unfortunately, immediately after something like this happens, the market becomes depressed for a while until the safety level is back. Just like anything...

 

If I were you, I would wait until at least late June to start auctioning off your items, because right now the Atari 2600 eBay market is definitely depressed. And for those of us that trust it, it is time to go get some great eBay deals!

[smile_walle]

Social Security Number is a good idea, beacuse E-bay will have to checked with Federal Government to make sure the ture person, if want to become e-bay seller, would have to wait a week or so before approval become seller to avoid any fraud and trying to stealing the money. If E-bay found out that person is fraud, then can kick out from e-bay and maybe can call police to get him or her (sellers) to charge for fraud selling items....I believe Soical security is a good idea to be checked before allow become e-bay seller.

You know what I mean??? or suggest any idea???

I would like to hear anyone of this board for my point of view.

 

Thanks

Jason

[Philflound]

Well, SS# is a bad idea. People can steal alot of things with your SS# including your identity, and even though Ebay may be a big company now, can you really trust the employees with that info, especially if they get fired, or better yet, get lured into big money, using or selling off SS#'s.

 

As for BUZZ46, I found out the original owner of the user id was from Oregon, so she probably stopped using the id prior to Ryan hacking her. She also probably has no clue that someone used her id to scam thousands of dollars.

 

Phil

[jklat2k1]

I think SSN is the only way to go. As a phone company employee, we have access to SSN's. I've been there close to 5 years and have never heard of any incidents. With the SSN, you can track a lot better than with a credit card. I think that has to happen eventually. Kind of like applying for a business license, leads more credibility to the sellers.

[CosmicJoke]

quote

I think SSN is the only way to go. As a phone company employee, we have access to SSN's. I've been there close to 5 years and have never heard of any incidents. With the SSN, you can track a lot better than with a credit card.

 

Well my girlfriend works for the major phone company here in PA and she has personally dealt with people that have been the victims of Identity Theft. The more people with access to your SSN, the greater the chance of YOU being a victim of Identity theft.

 

You as a phone company employee should be well aware of the fact that if you have a SSN you can set up phone service.

 

Any dishonest person could set up fraudulant accounts with a person's SSN and make 100's and even 1000's of dollars of calls before the real person ever even finds out.

Then it is the responsibility of the real person to come up with the proof of identity theft.

 

Now, I am not posting this to argue with you, just to stress the fact that Identity theft happens A LOT. The more people with access to your SSN the more likely it will happen to you.

[jklat2k1]

PA huh. I know a couple people in Hershey.

 

Good point and very well said. I don't deal too much with the security aspect, but still think that there needs to be a way to identify a fraudulent seller better than is currently in place.

 

If it wasn't for the people here in this forum, I think that the seller of the rare Atari games would have gotten a lot more of people's money. It's forums like this where we must be vigilant against these sort of people.

 

What if the seller moves, gets a new credit card number and email address, and starts again fresh. There needs to be something in place to protect the masses. I personally can't think of anything that is so attached to a person no matter where they go as a ssn.

[Philflound]

Back on the subject, it seems the Quadrun is now over $400. Guess someone has faith in this seller. I personally don't want to spend that kind of money. Most I've ever spent on a game is $300 on a mint sealed Berenstein Bears. Other than that, don't think I broke more than $200, and that was for a proto.

 

Phil

[Philflound]

Looks like Cubanito321 was booted and his user ID is no longer registered. Hooray for Ebay again! Let's keep our eyes open for future scammers.

 

Phil

[Albert]

quote:

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Originally posted by smile_walle:

Social Security Number is a good idea, beacuse E-bay will have to checked with Federal Government to make sure the ture person, if want to become e-bay seller, would have to wait a week or so before approval become seller to avoid any fraud and trying to stealing the money.

---

 

I sure as hell don't want my Social Security Number associated with my eBay account. Next thing you know, the IRS will hook into that so they can charge you taxes on the income you earn from your eBay account (even if you are just reselling junk you've already bought with money you've paid income taxes on). Not only that, but there was a time when your SSN wasn't supposed to be used for identification purposes, but alas, that seems to have passed into history. Another problem is that eBay is a global forum, and only those of us in the US have Social Security Numbers. You'd need some other system to verify foreign sellers. And that just gets too complex. And what do you do for businesses? Use their TAX ID number? What about foreign businesses? What about organizations that want to auction items?

 

eBay wants people to be able to sign up for an account and start selling (or bidding on) items immediately. The overhead in having to verify Social Security Numbers or some other means of identification would be enormous given the size of their operation. I wouldn't expect to see this type of system any time soon. And this still wouldn't stop people from abusing eBay. It would only end up hurting and annoying legitimate users.

 

..Al

[smile_walle]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albert:

eBay wants people to be able to sign up for an account and start selling (or bidding on) items immediately. The overhead in having to verify Social Security Numbers or some other means of identification would be enormous given the size of their operation. I wouldn't expect to see this type of system any time soon. And this still wouldn't stop people from abusing eBay. It would only end up hurting and annoying legitimate users.

---

Im glad that I did listened what you are explaining to me about this situation!!

 

I know that I tried to thinking how to sloved about Ebay, beacuse recently happened situation about Bug90. Some of people (frauders) will come back again, again, again...never stopped, right? So, we (bidders) would have to be very careful and re-exame the seller's auction and ask hard question BEFORE to bid it.

 

Now, Albert....I agreed with your statement, nothing worng. I understand it....I still very proud of this message board that I joined!! I always with Atari in my heart!!!

 

Jason

[KAZ]

I want to participate in this discussion too!

 

Isn't there something called an Escrow....

whereby a third party claims the seller's item, and the buyer sends the third party payment. Once everything is on the up and up, the third party sends the item to the buyer, and at the same time sends the seller the payment.

 

I think I read that somewhere.

 

Of course it isn't really realistic to do this for let's say a $10 item, in which case if you get screwed, it isn't that big of a loss.

 

But why not go into the Escrow type payment system for an item like an Atari 2600 Quadrun? These are worth like $400.

 

Then people wouldn't get ripped off.

 

What do you think of that?

 

I don't even know who this third party would be, like a bank of some kind?

[Atarian7]

Ebay already has an escrow system but I forget the specifics. I think there might be a minimum for it.

 

I got ripped off $76 for an atari 2600 with games last year. The user was jcehouse. I think he has been inactive for a long time. He might have sent it but i have NEVER had anything lost in the US Mail. It is possible but the odds are very low.

 

Stan: What is your subjective system for deciding who is a "profiteer"?

[Atarian7]

One of the reasons I ask is that atari2600.com had a sealed boxed TAZ for $20 or $22. I just got one off of ebay in perfect condition for $16.

In fact most of their games were more than what I've seen them for elsewhere. Are atari2600.com profiteers?

[portnoyd]

HE'S BACK FOLKS!

http://pub27.ezboard.com/fretrogamingclass...icID=4349.topic

 

Now he's doing strictly NES stuff.

]http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=lion77&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25]

 

All his new auctions.

 

Here's my post on DP's board.

 

The eBay scammer is back?

 

Hey,

 

Now, I have a poor memory. But, I believe I'm remembering correctly on this one...

 

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...1351463216

Complete Stadium Events. Tada. Nothing out of the ordinary, right? (Other than a complete stadium events) Well, I missed the BIN, and asked what it was. It was 250, and well, look who replies...

 

Return-Path: doomedrock@msn.com

X-Originating-IP: [62.168.35.114]

From: "RYAN KINMAN" doomedrock@msn.com

To: dwoh@iname.com

Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1351463216

Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 17:59:45 -0400

X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2002 21:59:45.0575 (UTC) FILETIME=7FB8DB70:01C1F612

 

Hi, the BIN was $250.00 If you were interested, I'd be willing to cancel or

end the auction early for you (i was really hoping it would go with BIN).

Thanks!

 

Ryan Kinman. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't his bug90/buzz46/baby56 who listed loads of rare atari stuff that, if I remember correctly, was completely bogus? Seeing how eager he is to get his very low BIN, maybe he's back?

 

Or was he legit and I missed that post? Or am I implicating someone incorrectly? I tried searching for the thread naming him, and could only find the eBay forum post by AtariAgeAlbert that just mentions and questions his auctions. Being that he also posted a whole bunch of big ticket NES stuff doesn't help his case.

 

Tell me what ya guys think.

 

dave

 

p.s. Had to edit bc board fucntions made a mess of the post.

 

[ 05-07-2002: Message edited by: portnoyd ]

[Rick Weis]

that name is correct for bug90 and the others nicknames he has used good job... now we need to shut him down FAST!!!

 

Take Care,

 

Rick

[StanJr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atarian7:

Stan: What is your subjective system for deciding who is a "profiteer"?

---

 

Sorry I stopped reading this for a bit.

 

To me an "evil profiteer" is someone who doe something solely based on its ability to generate a profit (usually high) regardless of any other factors, especially those that involve consideration for others. These are the people that must be stopped.

[Philflound]

I really do wish I lived near this guy. I'd break his legs.

 

The Mother F-er doesn't deserve his life. I hate scammers.

 

Mad Phil

[Rick Weis]

i see he don't accept pay pal now! either he's learning or he lost his pay pal account! hehehe...

 

Take Care,

 

Rick

[Albert]

Yep, it does appear that RYAN KINMAN is up to his old tricks. It didn't take long for me to locate the original images used for his Stadium Events auction:

 

Stadium Events Auction - 1351463216

 

Original Cartridge Scan

Stadium Events Box

 

Both of these images came from two entirely different websites, so it's quite obvious that neither of them are scans of whatever this guy is selling.

 

On the cartridge you can quite clearly see the little nick on the label on the top, and all the scratches on the plastic to the left of the label. You can also see where someone cropped the original image on the left with black (this is visible in both images).

 

The box scan is even more obvious, since it's the same exact filesize and dimensions!!

 

This guy needs to be shut down again, and someone needs to throw this ass in jail. Looks like another eBay account has been hijacked, and people need to start writing eBay to get this account closed before anyone gets suckered in with BIN prices like last time! Also, anyone bidding on these auctions needs to be warned.

 

..Al

 

[ 05-07-2002: Message edited by: Albert ]