Pitfall II music is overrated!

[supercat]

The Pitfall II theme does rock... but damn, it gets repetitive.

 

No kidding. I think it was a mistake to make Pitfall II be only 8K+2K instead of 16K+2K. More memory would have allowed the game to be far more interesting, and also to have music that didn't repeat every 16 seconds. By comparison, the theme to my latest game Toyshop Trouble (which doesn't play during the game itself) has a 76.8 second repeat; the game-over music runs 153.6 seconds.

[Urchlay]

By comparison, the theme to my latest game Toyshop Trouble (which doesn't play during the game itself) has a 76.8 second repeat; the game-over music runs 153.6 seconds.

 

I've always been interested in the idea of semi-random music... say, you come up with a structure for your tune (distinct verse, chorus, bridge, etc), each piece of which has a chord progression, so the overall tune is made of a pretty long set of chord changes.

 

Then you come up with several rhythm/bass patterns for each progression that follow the chords, and all sound OK no matter what order you play them in (so long as the pattern you're playing is for the current chord in the progression)...

 

Each time through the tune, for each measure (or for each group of 4-8 measures?), you pick a random rhythm pattern that matches the chords that belong there... maybe not completely random, or it wouldn't sound like a coherent rhythm, but the idea is that you come up with enough variations on the theme that it sounds improvised instead of being exactly the same each time. Some of the patterns will be almost identical, with different fills/breaks, and some will be radically different...

 

... then come up with a whole bunch of lead phrases that just stay in the same key as the song, and play them over the rhythm, also in random order. You could maybe group the lead phrases into categories ("fast scales", "arpeggios", "bent half notes", "counterpoint", etc), and play only lead patterns from one category each time through the overall tune structure, so each repetition has a different "feel".

 

I think this would lead to music that sounds less computer-generated... Of course, it'll never come close to a real blues or jazz jam by humans...

 

In case you can't tell, this isn't a fully worked-out idea yet

 

I think this is close to how the A8/5200 Ballblazer music works, though I haven't disassembled the code to find out for sure. If it ever truly repeats, it takes a really long time to do it.

[Video]

Pitfall II clearly has the best music of any game on the 2600. From a technical standpoint, there simply is no way to get better music without an external mod (such as the sound chip in the P2 cart) Yes, it's shor, it's repetitive, but it's still good.

 

Personally, a lot of new homebrews have great music in them, that is clear, and sounds like they're using the proper range of notes, but even still, they aren't quiet as complicated as the Pitfall II tune.

 

And few people evermentione the ballon ride music, which is friggin awesome.

[+batari]

The music is generated digital at a rate of ~15.7kHz, so every tone up to ~7.8kHz should be possible. No?

On the other hand, if the DPC is generating square or rectangular waves (as I understand it to be), certain pitches would sound somewhat nasty in in the absense of any anti-aliasing filters. Using an RC timing circuit in such a context would be absurd, since there would be no way of predicting what pitches would be good or bad.

I am not totally sure, but I thought that Pitfall II didn't just turn the volume registers on and off, but used the full range of audio registers, which would allow for a 4-bit waveform. This would sound a great deal better than a square wave.

 

Or if Pitfall II didn't do this, I am certain that some modern demos have.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I am not totally sure, but I thought that Pitfall II didn't just turn the volume registers on and off, but used the full range of audio registers...

It does.

[rheffera]

What about the Thurst Theme? thats wonderful and is the best music i have heard on 2600 ( I have NOT hear pitfall II music so if someone wants to attach a wav or mp3 ill listen to it) but as it stands thrust is the best i have encounterd

[supercat]

It does.

 

Is the waveform for each individual voice sinusoidal? I had thought that the DPC simply generated three square waves and a noise wave and outputted the sum.

[supercat]

What about the Thurst Theme? thats wonderful and is the best music i have heard on 2600 ( I have NOT hear pitfall II music so if someone wants to attach a wav or mp3 ill listen to it) but as it stands thrust is the best i have encounterd

 

THRUST+ is indeed impressive. What amazes me with it is that it manages to use different timbres as a means of getting different in-key notes, but in a way that makes sense. Acid Drop's music uses mostly a square-wave timbre (mode 4 or 12) but one of the pitches wasn't available in that timbre so they used the sawtooth timbre (mode 1 IIRC) instead. A real "clinker".

 

Strat-O-Gems does something similar (if someone manages to get a 9x combo) but there only the highest note of a progression is a saw wave while everything else is square. Since the progression starts on C, and that highest note is also a C, the change in timbre is not objectionable, nor particularly noticeable.

 

Thrust's achievement, however, is more impressive. It actually benefits from the different timbres at different pitches. I wonder if Paul Slocum made a graphical pitch chart anything like mine?

[A.J. Franzman]

The Pitfall II balloon riding music is the best in any game anytime anywhere.

few people evermentione the ballon ride music, which is friggin awesome.

It's great music, very well rendered, but not written for the game:

Songs In Atari 2600 games, post #8

[Feralstorm]

I really like the Pitfall 2 music, and that it has the 'happy' and 'sad' versions of the theme. I don't remember there being that much in the way of comparable musical themes on any home game system at the time, much less the 2600.

[supercat]

I really like the Pitfall 2 music, and that it has the 'happy' and 'sad' versions of the theme. I don't remember there being that much in the way of comparable musical themes on any home game system at the time, much less the 2600.

 

There wasn't anything comparable at the time on the 2600, since it's hard to make music on the 2600 that's worth listening to. The C64 had lots of music that was even better, though.

 

If you want to hear some nice 2600 music with happy and sad themes, maybe you need to order yourself a copy of Toyshop Trouble. Since it doesn't use custom hardware the intonation isn't perfect and the tune doesn't play during the game (just title screen and game-over screen, with a brief bit during intermissions). On the other hand, the main happy theme runs over a minute before looping; the sad theme runs over two minutes.

 

Interestingly, btw, the melody might be described as being in "melodic major", analagous to "melodic minor". Since the square-wave voice on the 2600 has a choice between generating a "b" that's slightly sharp or slightly flat, I use the flat version in one spot when it's not used as a leading tone, and the sharp version in another spot where it is used as a leading tone (in the former spot, btw, the bass note is slightly flat; in the latter spot it's at correct pitch).

 

TT's tune may not be quite as impressive technically as the ones in Pitfall or Thrust+, but it does include some rather interesting rhythms and has a fairly long repeat period.

Edited January 8, 2007 by supercat

[moycon]

I thought Pitfall2 was pretty amazing music wise, but I also enjoyed Mountain King's music, especially once you got the flame and were heading back up the mountain.

[rjchamp3]

PITFALL 2 IS THE GREATEST GAME AND MUSIC OF IT'S TIME PERIOD...

[Shawn]

PITFALL 2 IS THE GREATEST GAME AND MUSIC OF IT'S TIME PERIOD...

 

 

Nope, BMX Airmaster IMO had the best tunes. And Smurfs had the best graphics

[PressureCooker2600]

PITFALL 2 IS THE GREATEST GAME AND MUSIC OF IT'S TIME PERIOD...

 

 

Nope, BMX Airmaster IMO had the best tunes. And Smurfs had the best graphics

 

i'll do this the rj way.....

 

PRESSURE COOKER IS THE GREATEST GAME AND MUSIC OF IT'S TIME PERIOD...

[Rik]

Pitfall2 tune repetitive?,and so is ALOT OF TODAYS MUSIC,still a good tune for its time.Pressure cooker is a nice tune,but its just a short jingle.I cant think of any other 2600 game that has a FULL length tune while you play,i think the first pitfall could have used a tune also,phenomenol game,but gets boring without a tune,especially after playing PITFALL2.

Edited January 13, 2007 by Rik

[Foxsolo2000]

I have to admit that Pitfall 2 boasted some incredible sounds for its time. I was so used to simply beeps that when I plugged it in I was immediately blown away by its crisp, clean sound. I laways liked the ET music played on the intro screen but Pitfall 2 showed how to get the most out of the humble system.

[Rik]

I sure wish PITFALL had a tune while playing.After a game of PITFALL2,you wish PF had a tune also.I think a tune is seriously needed for PF.I'm not saying a game has to have a tune playing to be good,but in PF,all you're basically doing is jumping and swinging from vines,so,i think adding a cool tune to PF2 was a BRILLIANT MOVE!

Edited January 8, 2007 by Rik

[128bytes]

The first music that 'blew me away' sonically for the Atari VCS was the (Parker Bros.) Frogger introduction theme. I remember being wowed by the first actual SONG introduction in an Atari game!!! Up until that point, the Activision games that were out (during the boom years of 1981 and 1982) were incredible visually, but run of the mill sonically. (the only early Activision game with perfect sound IMHO is Kaboom! which is minimalist perfection in every way...) Frogger, despite its flicker, was incredible visually, sonically, and had great game play too. Frogger "raised the bar" IMHO for Atari VCS/2600 sound, and all the game makers strove to improve their sound quality for later releases, with the crown jewel being 1983's Pitfall II.

[vdub_bobby]

The best I can think of offhand:

 

1. Thrust+ theme

2. Pitfall II

3. Jr. Pac-Man

4. Seawolf

[Starhopper]

I sure wish PITFALL had a tune while playing.After a game of PITFALL2,you wish PF had a tune also.I think a tune is seriously needed for PF.I'm not saying a game has to have a tune playing to be good,but in PF,all you're basically doing is jumping and swinging from vines,so,i think adding a cool tune to PF2 was a BRILLIANT MOVE!

It may sound a bit obvious, but I always end up with the 'Raiders' theme running through my head. The entire game reminds me of that opening scene of the movie where he's running through corridors and jungle and swinging on that blasted whip

[+Random Terrain]

I've always been interested in the idea of semi-random music... say, you come up with a structure for your tune (distinct verse, chorus, bridge, etc), each piece of which has a chord progression, so the overall tune is made of a pretty long set of chord changes.

That's my kind of thinking. Since the mid to late 1980s, I wanted games that had music that changed with what was happening in the game. Not whole prerecorded pieces of music to fit a level, but music that changed during a level, depending on the action. You would have a different musical experience each time. It would all depend on your actions and the actions of the other characters in the game.

 

On a different subject: In the Atari 2600 years, I didn't care a whole lot for game music. I'd rather have a replayable game with no music than a single use 'toilet paper game' that has a lame tune playing in the background. After living through the Nintendo years where the same tune repeated throughout the game and there was no way to turn it off, I was ready to hunt down the people who were responsible for the torture. I was very happy in the 1990s when an increasing number of games had the option to turn off the music.

[djmips]

Just a note, the technique that Pitfall 2 did in hardware can be done in software. Three voice in-tune software music was accomplished by Andy Mucho. Only thing is that it doesn't really leave any time left over for a display or much of game. I did a quick job of this for the Boulderdash tune, which I botched a little It was cool but I need better source music. It can sound quite a bit better if done properly.

 

There is still undiscovered country when it comes to 2600 audio, so I expect to hear some pretty cool tunes and FX in the future.

[supercat]

There is still undiscovered country when it comes to 2600 audio, so I expect to hear some pretty cool tunes and FX in the future.

 

There is some undiscovered country, but there are some pretty severe limits. One of the nice things about the 2600 is that it's okay to have a kernel spending 100% of its time on the display during parts of the frame, or in some cases even more than that (if one considers cached data as representing the time required to cache it), and yet have other places where code runs for over a thousand cycles without polling the display or worrying about the time. This works great for video, but doesn't work at all for Pitfall-II-style or Quadrun-style audio (with or without a DPC). Trying to output digitized audio (whether it's computed on the fly or pre-recorded) requires handling the audio polling on EVERY scan line. Even with a version of the DPC enhanced to only require five cycles per update instead of seven, having to perform an INC AUDV0 at the same spot on every scan line would severely curtail kernel design. Even when the different parts of a game's kernel all have some free cycles on every scan line, they won't necessarily always have their free cycles at the same places.

[+batari]

Quadrun-style audio

That brings up a point - Quadrun and Berzerk VE both blank the screen while playing audio. I wonder if anyone's tried to output digitized audio like this while also trying to display a screen? Granted, the screen wouldn't be very detailed and the audio couldn't be very long, but it would be interesting nonetheless.

Trying to output digitized audio (whether it's computed on the fly or pre-recorded) requires handling the audio polling on EVERY scan line. Even with a version of the DPC enhanced to only require five cycles per update instead of seven, having to perform an INC AUDV0 at the same spot on every scan line would severely curtail kernel design. Even when the different parts of a game's kernel all have some free cycles on every scan line, they won't necessarily always have their free cycles at the same places.

You don't need to do audio on every scanline; you could do every other scanline and still produce acceptable results, as long as you didn't try to represent too high a pitch and ran any digitized audio through a low-pass filter first. There is at least one demo out there that does this, and it sounded just fine to me.

 

Also, I could be wrong, but I once examined Pitfall II code and I recall that it doesn't necessarily do its audio stores at exactly the same place on every scanline. My guess would be that the DPC has an independent waveform generator, so you might get a different value to store to the audio registers than you would if you read it at precise intervals. In doing so, it seems to me that it could tolerate being off a little on reads and it's unlikely that anyone would notice.